To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

Seems to me that all MN children are very well behaved with perfect parents and everyone elses kids are 'dickheads' with shit parents.

Or maybe most people occupy a middle ground......................

Woooo, you certainly seem to feel the cap fits.

Mine weren't always well behaved but I dealt with it if they were.
They are one adult and two teenagers now and are pretty well behaved .

The point of the OP is that the parents aren't dealing with the childs behaviour.
I am perfect though- you got that bit right

Some children don't have the understanding to have things explained to them. Others find social situations distressing. Others can't cope with the sensory stimulation. I hope people consider things like these before they start judging.

Others find social situations distressing. Others can't cope with the sensory stimulation

But, in the case the OP describes, the parents of the 4-year-old suggested the meal and choose the restaurant. Surely you don't do this if you know your child has a particular problem with these situations?

It is then up to the parents to manage the situation and potentially not bring them to places that cause distress to the children and disturbance to other people.

But some children are "easier" OP. Just as some adults are easier to connect with or get along with.

I think it's quite arrogant and boastful to imagine that how a child is parented is the only or even the main thing that determines the outcome for a child. Some on here sound so pleased with themselves it's laughable.

Most of us do our best and sometimes our kids are not well behaved and have bad days.Sometimes it's bloody hard to get it right.

That's the reality.

One of my dc is autistic. He doesn't deal well with certain situations. We tend not to put him in those situations.

Saying that my children know how to behave isn't boastful or arrogant. They do know and I know which situations they wouldn't cope in.

Mine can equally be little shits but if they were awful each time we went somewhere, we wouldn't continue to go.

The OP wasn't discussing a child who found the situation distressing .
The child was scootering round a restaurant and behaving in a disruptive way while the parents did nothing

Of course if your child finds the situation too much then you don't go or choose a quieter event.
Thats a whole different thread though.

If I kept my child out of situations he may not deal with we would never leave the house.

woooooo everyone has acknowledged that their DC haven't always behaved well and what they would then do.
If my DC was running about in a restaurant or screaming and was disturbing other people trying to enjoy their meal, then I would take them outside and probably end up going home.
Its the lack of response from the parents that is the problem here.

I think many parents are afraid of their children. They are afraid to stand up to them and set the ground rules for behaviour, because of tantrums etc so they just give in for a quiet life.
I guess being out in a restaurant isn't the place to start trying to establish ground rules, but in the home is the right place.

I agree that allowing a child to scooter in a restaurant or make a terrible on-going noise is selfish and unaware of other diners. All childrens will make some noise and might cry, but if it becomes prolonged I do feel that they should be taken out until they calm down.

I have been in situations too, when friends' children have been very poorly behaved in public. Often they are told that if they continue, there will be no pudding, or they will have to leave etc......but there is always pudding and they never leave, despite the behaviour continuing. Empty threats eh! And if course, even the 2 year old knows they will never be carried through with.
Of course, the parents suffer too, if they carry out the threat and leave.....but then sometimes I think this is necessary - short term pain for long term gain.

I'm not talking about unusual or minor poor behaviour here, but poor behaviour which interferes with the enjoyment of others not in our party.

I think that if children cannot behave to a decent enough standard (and we all have to decide what that is) then they shouldn't be taken to restaurants beyond McDonalds (and even then I'd question it). Many parents say, why should they give up eating out just because they have small children. And my answer is that they should until they can behave, and that sacrifice is necessary, because everyone else who is paying deserves to have a decent time. Parenting involves sacrifices and if one of those is not going to restaurants for a couple of years, so be it.

I totally accept children will make some noise, might cry and will need some entertainment......so take some crayons or little figures for them......and don't go for a 2 hour meal when you know your child can only sit for 10 mins.

For me, the big no-nos are;

• allowing children to run round restaurants
• allowing them to throw food
• allowing them to be very noisy on an ongoing basis

As for cutting friends off, I have tried not to do this, but try not to meet them in restaurants, but perhaps for a picnic or at someone's house, where the behaviour, whilst still annoying, isn't affecting everyone else.

The basic point, is only to take children to places that their current levels of behaviour are suitable for.

There is a difference between a child not behaving well and a child behaving in a certain way due to a disability. It is not reasonable to expect someone to leave or not go somewhere if it is due to disability. I will leave if I think the situation is too distressing for my son but not because he is disturbing other people.

This thread has followed a formula.

Yes Hester, you are right.
People start off horrified at the OP daring to complain about children showing their 'individuality' has moved onto SN and then to people who think good behaviour should be enforced.

I would say, start young! Insist on the basic things, always carry through on threats, choose where you go carefully so you don't put the children in situations they cannot cope with (such as sitting at a table for 2 hours) and establish very clearly that you are in charge. Very quickly you will find their behaviour is such that they can go into all manner of social situations and you can enjoy yourself. But you have to be prepared to establish that you are in charge and this will result in some crying etc.....better done at home than out.

I am impressed if I hear a parent make a threat in response to bad behaviour (an appropriate and proportionate threat) and then carry it through.

YANBU. I hate hate hate it when parents stop the conversation to listen to their child!!!! I don't do this with mine, she will soon realise not to butt into conversations.

No the formula is ,everyone piles in to back themselves on the back at their wonderful parenting and they all have a mate with kids they don't like.

There is a difference between a typically developing child behaving badly and a noisy/ bangy/ screamy child with disabilities. As long as you not expect the latter to leave, I am happy.

Actually I do stop the conversation to
Listen to my child.

Mainly it's just to make it's not a need a wee/ sister banged head/ can I drink the washing up liquid -type request.

I am a very slack parent though

shit sorry. forgot that we musn't mention SN just in case it accidentally follows 'the formula'.

Apologies.

I don't think I've ever seen a child scootering in a restaurant