To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

Interesting thread. YANBU op, I also hate hearing parents weakly tell badly behaved kids off with no actual consequences. And I'm definitely not perfect, my (3 yo) dd had a massive screaming tantrum on a train a couple of months ago, I'm sure people thought me and dp were shit parents. But she knows what's expected of her when we're out having food, no way would she be allowed to scoot around or climb!

Troublesometrucker I just laughed out loud at your 'N word' comment!

I took DS out for the day with friends and their similar aged DC. In all honesty, my DS was a bloody nightmare. Never had I seen such demanding, entitled, rude and spoilt behaviour from my child. Each time he started I took aside to have a word, my threats gradually grew stricter. After telling him the last time he threw himself to the floor because he ran off and I couldn't see him that I would take him home, he tried to climb a wall. I told him to come down, we were walking to somehwere else, he blew a raspberry at me. That was it, I turned to my friends, apologised and left with a screaming child over my shoulder.

I got home wondering where I has gone wrong with my parenting and feeling like a failure. I barely got to chat to my friends as I was continuously trying to control DS and sent both friends an email of apology.

A few days later DS, unprompted, said to me 'mummy, I'm sorry I wasn't very good at the park, I was being naughty and silly, I'm sorry, I love you'. For me, it was the realisation he had done wrong, accepted it and apologised that made me realise I wasn't doing a bad job. And my friends still want to see me and DS which is a blessing!

Nrft yet, but I don't think it's strange that OP knows a lot of lax parents tbh. I Know a few different sets of parents, and one set are all Ineffectual with any sort of discipline, or instilling of manners.In fact manners do not seem to be considered important, so you will be endlessly intereputed by toddlers, and even older children, and the parent will cut you off mid setence to answer the child. They don't expect the children to sit at a table for meals, and let them getup and wander off, , leaving chewed up bits of bread in my sofa . Table manners are not considered important now for a large swathe of people.
I have had to leave a restaurant where all the children (including my son)we causing chaos, and all the other diners were giving evils. I said to ds "stop this behaviour or we will leave. He didn't, we left. All the other kids got to stay and ruin the Saturday evening of a whole restaurant full of people. It is not smug to at least TRY and socialise children. God knows I don't always succeed!

DS is nearly 4.

TroublesomeTrucker the nursery I used to worked enforced the rule of never using the word naughty. They said it was a label, a negative one that shouldn't be used to describe a child. Even now, with DS at nearly 4, I have used that word with him less times than I can count on my fingers and never said he is naughty, only his actions iyswim?. He learnt the meaning of the word being around other children being told off. So when I have used it, he knows it meant big trouble.

I must admit I don't like hearing young, young children be called naughty when they are exploring their surroundings e.g. emptying a drawer of clothes.

I 'm with you op. Every child has tantrums - screams for boundaries - some more, some less.
The important bit is how the parents react to it.

I have stopped meeting a few friends because their kids' appalling behaviour wasn't addressed. Certainly they have not been back at our house (for example a four year old who walked through my freshly planted flower beds trampling all my flowers, been told not to, then did it again - while looking me in the eye)

In a public setting at least you can walk off if it gets too much.

We still have enough friends left.

Why would anyone keep meeting with children who purposefully injure your child and get away with it?
People who would not make their child apologize immediately for that and be told in no uncertain terms that it is wrong, I would not be meeting again if could help it.

No, my children are no angels, all had tantrums, but I took them away from the situation if it happened in a public place.

Find some likeminded friends, op.

I live in France and have friends of lots of different nationalities. British and American parents are sometimes incredibly confused laisser-faire in their parenting - more so than most others. I think that some Anglo-Saxon parents are so bewildered and overwhelmed by all the conflicting advice out there that they aren't able to assume their rightful role as parents, which is about modelling and instilling language and behaviour in their DC.

I would personally not use a phrase like "dick head" except about an adult under extreme duress.
I would never say a child had a "bad character" it insinuates that they have a basic fault in their character/personality that cannot be changed, on a par with saying they are a "born criminal".

The way French people parent is very different from the UK. If you don't enjoy being with these "friends" then yes don't go with them again.

BTW on a good day you would have no idea my DD has issues. In fact until 8/9 you would have claimed there was no issues - except that she was bright.

I do think your friends could have dealt with the thing better with a little preparation. But after a lot of parenting I also acknowledge that they could well be in the situation where they couldn't win. Either: they cancelled/went home early or they had you judge their badly behaved child. From my experience I would probably have opted for the first - as sometimes you just aren't going to win.

The thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is that if you make the effort early on your DC (NT) will learn how to behave and actually in the long run its easier.
They knew that it wasnt ok to run around in restaurants and so it is less effort for me, they didn't continue to do it.
There were times when they were tired,ill etc and we were careful to avoid going out if this was the case.
I was also strict about bedtimes .

I cant believe that anyone doesn't think table manners aren't important - a good example is my BIL who has vile table manners ,chops his entire meal to a pulp, slurps it up wrapped in bread ,belches, takes the entire dish before anyone else is served etc.
Needless to say their DC have no table manners either and are appallingly behaved.
I cant bear to be around them its so stressful- the whole ineffectual threats, endless pleading and then they lose their rag and go ballistic in public.
Every single time .
I feel sorry for the DC ,they aren't happy, they don't have any boundaries instilled regarding their behaviour/table manners/bedtime and then they get a major bollocking every time they go out/don't want to go to bed.

And actually, lovely though it is to also be friends with your kids, the relationship is not going to be quite the same, is it?

What do you mean Coolas?

Yesterday DS -teenager and I were out and I jokingly gave him "the look" -he remembered immediately and we had a good laugh about it !

I would say that I am not friends with my children. I get on great with them, love them unconditionally and genuinely like them. They would prob say much the same about me.

I need to decide what is best for them and this is not what is necessairily whats the most fun. They might want friends but they need parents.

They can be friends with me when they are adult when I don't need to parent them.

YANBU I hate misbehaviour from children and yes I have my own. I often find myself givng other peoples kids hard stares in restaurants, cinema etc. Teaching polite behaviour starts at toddler stage and good manners are very important in life.

This thread is really depressing.

Personally I find the empty threat school of parenting unbelievable annoying. Especially when my experiences of following through on threats has been so Positive.

I don't think I've permanently harmed any small children in the process but I've made everyone's lives much easier as there are clear boundaries and clear consequences for bad behaviour.

Learning to sit in a restaurant is an important skill. At 4 they are probably being expected to sit in the class room! But then we invoke terrible things like having to ask to get down from the table at home too which I've also heard criticised on here.

My concession in the restaurant would be to go somewhere kids are welcome, the food is to their taste and have lots of activities for the boring bit when adult chat is dragging on - books, colouring and the dreaded ipad.

I agree Ink my DC have their own friends I am their parent.

Absolutely Ink - my kids, who I also share a loving relationship with, have plenty of friends, but only one mother. There's no confusion.

And being a successful parent isn't about being liked the best by your kids.

My children are adults (well DS2 will be in Dec). We have been friends for a good few years.

I didn't have a deathstare when I taught nursery either, and I had no problem at all with getting 25 2 and 3 year olds to listen to a story.

Just to be clear I never use the death stare in nursery, year 5s get it though.
And yes, I completely agree that the different relationship that teachers have with children does mean that getting them to behave is different. However what I was trying to point out is that (nt) children can modify their behaviour depending on the situation, even at 3.

I don't define my success as a parent by how much they like me Pictish, I define it by how they have turned out and how they behaved throughout their childhoods.

They could be taken anywhere, we had many, many compliments from strangers about their behaviour. Both of them got to the end of Yr11 without ever having a detention, incident sheet or major telling off at school. Whenever they went anywhere for tea or a play date, they were complimented.

They are well mannered, will hold the door open, carry stuff for people, volunteer to do things for others, help people out. They are great young men! That is why I think DH and I have been successful parents, not because DS2 says I am his best friend!

"My youngest is my shadow, is always seeking my advice and calls me his best friend."

Mmm...I'm not sure in the case of my children, I would be too delighted about that.

I would hope they'd have branched off by then and successfully made best friends elsewhere. I'd not expect to be shadowed by my grown up son, unless there was something socially awry.
I would, of course, always be there for advice though.

Fairy to be fair, we can only go on exactly what you say here.