To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

Coolas, completely agree.

I'm completely calm about different parenting styles and absolutely recognise that all children are different. I do think though that parents should spare other people the worst excesses of their children when those people have nowhere to escape and are trying to enjoy an event (restaurant, cinema etc) for which they are paying hard-earned money.

No idea what eberdiffence meant, but mean difference

I think it is you being the "dickhead" OP, maybe you need to "educate" yourself?

God OP I can't believe you've dropped friends plural because of how their 4yos behave!!!!

I can't imagine doing that. The behaviour would want to be very extreme. The kids won't be 4 forever you know!

Totally behind you on that mascara!!!

Thank you onepot! I'm off to bed now so I can recharge for tomorrows battle.

Night all!

YANBU, Littlefrench. Too much of it around these days - children need boundaries and they won't learn them unless they are taught them by their parents/caregivers.

I think that so long as the children of your friends are not violent, you could still hang out with them, but maybe only at play areas such as the park, or soft play (if you can bear it!) - definitely not somewhere that you would expect manners and good behaviour to be important.

I was in a cafe a year or so ago and a child was tearing around the place, his mum kept begging him to sit down, he ignored her, he crashed into a waitress who then dropped her tray, luckily no one was hurt but mum of child gave the poor waitress a bollocking about watching where she was going and demanding to see manager to get her fired.

There's many a time I get together with family, often in resteraunt, there's 13 children ranging from one years old to fourteen, all the parents have massive differences in their parenting style, yes there has been crying and other scenes but climbing on table tops and riding a scooter? No.

Yanbu op. You have my sympathy. I think there are too many parents who want to be their children's friends rather than parents. Children need boundaries and this starts when they are young. I have met too many parents that use the excuse but they're only 4/ only little, then expect the child at 16 to listen to them. Children have rights but need to be taught about their responsibilities too.

I had visitors who stayed with us recently with their pfb, we explained that we don't allow the children to eat in the car and the mother and child asked why and carried on munching away at a packet of crisps regardless. When he caused chaos they laughed and thought it was funny. Unfortunately some parents are such poor role models it's inevitable their children end up becoming like this. Needless to say they won't be invited back!

I understand where you're coming from OP. I have some wonderful friends with a 4 year old who it seems every time I see them is 'in a bit of whingey phase'. This has been going on for over a year.

I don't think it is a phase. I think this is a child who has learned that he can command attention and get what he wants by whining or having a tantrum, often over the most ridiculous little thing.

He is otherwise a lovely child but I find the constant whinging almost unbearable. I don't know how the parents can stand it!

That's awful. If the child ran into a waitress that's not the waitresses fault!

I was in a similar situation when ds2 was nearly 3. We were at a family christening in a busy pub/restaurant. Ds2 was not a bolter by nature, and I stupidly put too much trust in him and let him get a couple of foot too many away from me.

Next thing I knew he'd sprinted...and me, wearing too-high heels , and with him having a 6 foot start on me, couldn't catch him in time to stop him racing out of the private back room. He went straight through the main restaurant, and barged straight into the kitchen at a run, where there were pans of scalding water, cookers, knives etc.

Just as I reached the kitchen door a chef threw the plate (full of food) he was holding and grabbed ds1 under the arms to stop him running full pelt at another chef holding a saucepan of soup.

I was so relived/grateful/embarrassed and mortified all at once I was nearly in tears. If ds1 had been scalded in that kitchen, although an accident, it would have 100% been my fault, not theirs.

Should be ds2 through that...not ds1.

Fillet. One of my 4 DC was born sensitive too. Extra sensitive to emotions, tastes, textures, pain, others, being too busy, the environment. At the same time he is also very bright, caring, humorous, perceptive, creative and loving and observant - although some mistake this last quality for shy. I also realised that time out made him feel too upset and too emotionally stimulated - this was a shock as time out had always worked well with the older ones. The book taught me about lots of things including how essential and grounding down time is for sensitive children. Also empathising and acknowledging child feelings. I also started to see the sensitivity as a positive rather then negative thing.

I should have added waitress wasn't fired, she was on the verge of tears though, an elderly couple pointed out to mum that her son shouldn't have been running around, she told them to fuck off and was then asked to leave by the manager.

"There's a vast difference between your children having a healthy respect for you, and your children being frightened of you.

My DDs don't fear me, they never have. Lord knows they can be audacious and cheeky enough on occasion...but, yep, the respect is there - and they would prefer not to invoke my displeasure, I believe"

LeQueen, I've heard you talk about this death stare quite a lot over the years. It always makes me think your children very much fear you. I'm not saying at all that you are a bad mother or that your children don't love you but it's clear that fear is what controls them (IMO anyway). My mum always boasted how she could take us anywhere - course she could because if we embarrassed her (the gold standard of good parenting - not to be embarrassed, no matter what) we knew we would get several hard slaps.

Say it again, when i was really little - families didn't eat out. And we did behave because we knew the consequences were pretty bad,

mumwithanipad
That's terrible ! the poor waitress. Good on the manager. Telling the other couple to Fuck off . . . classy. Not.

We have eaten out with our kids since they were very young. I do the death stare, I hiss threats. Generally, they are very very well behaved - especially now they are older. When it is just us as a family - when we can really relax and focus on each other and chat, it's great and it always goes well. Change that format, introduce other people and where the kids aren't getting out usual full attention, their are other kids to impress and little things like this can make a difference to their behaviour. It's a strange one.

My mum did the Death Stare. It didn't make me afraid of her but I didn't exactly relish a bollicking over my bad behaviour afterwards, so the threat of it did make me behave myself. So generally we did (in public or in company at least) meaning that the Death Stare didn't need to be wheeled out.

Gosh, I'm surprised at so many of the comments here. The "letting children be children" sound like they think this child was happy. His doesn't sound like he was very happy, he sounds like he was miserable.

Actually he sounds like a child who doesn't get enough sleep, to tell the truth.

Littlefrench - if you think calling a four year old a dickhead is appropriate then I think you have more to worry about than good table manners. I sincerely hope your children don't grow up to be like you.

This thread makes me a bit sad, tbh. My children are so different, with DS the distress at being out of his normal surroundings has been there since he was a baby. He just would not settle for his afternoon nap if I was out. I literally could not go out the house. He used to have his morning nap in his pram as I went for a walk after dropping DD at school, no problem. He was also fine late afternoon when we took DD to afterschool activities, once he got to know the places. This was a couple of times a week. Apart from that, I could not go out because he would not settle.

DD was very portable, I could take her anywhere as a baby.

So, if they are that different as babies, of course then it's not all down to parenting. Having DS had a huge impact on my life in a way DD didn't. I love him every bit as much, but they are very different.

I tend to agree with Mexicanspringtime that the behaviour sounds like a child who needs more sleep. DS acts up when he is tired; sometimes it surprises me because I think he has slept a lot (he is a better sleeper than DD was), but sure enough, once he is rested things improve.

i feel sad reading this too. i have tried so hard with dd (3). she is very very difficult and challenging. i always do have boundaries, and try to keep them, but it makes little difference. yesterday i had to carry her screaming her out of the park as she wouldn't come and force her into her carseat and she screamed all the way home. nothing to do with parenting i feel. she has always been really hard work. knowing people like you are judging me and my daughter (wether you see the discipline efforts or not) makes me feel very sad and actually would put me off going out in public with her.

Can't read all the messages so I don't know where this is atm but I have to have my comment:
You don't educate a 4 year old through stuff like this. You parent them. Educate implies that you are teaching them that they mustn't behave in a certain way. Parenting would be more shaping their behaviour.
All 4 year olds have their moments and it certainly feels that the parents didn't handle it very well, which it why it continued all day. But they do, from time to time have complete meltdowns when they are tired/ hungry/ill etc
I suspect the parents detected your disapproval and we've all been there. It's really difficult to regain the situation when your buttons are being pushed by your child and you can tell that you (and your child) are being watched and judged.

I have some friends who I love spending time with. Regardless whether my kids are being angels or not, I can relax and we enjoy ourselves.
There are other friends who always make me feel tense. I feel they are looking to compare their children to mine and compare our parenting as if to judge me against themselves.

I think you need to let go of the expectation that others will parent the same way as you. If you no longer enjoy their company, don't see them as often. It doesn't have to be turned into a thing about they should be parenting differently so that you enjoy their company more.

Why are people taking offence over their own children's behaviour? It's not about the child's behaviour, it's about the child's parents failure to address the behaviour adequately!
"Don't do that, or we'll get cross" repeated ad nauseam isn't going to achieve anything. Because they never do get cross enough to instigate any form of discipline, so the child carries on with the behaviour because it knows there are no consequences.

estya - the OP is French. She means "teaching" as opposed to "educating" but the nuance is probably not obvious.

I don't judge the kids however they behave. I judge a passive parenting style some parents have - and the negative overbearing almost bulling parenting style other parents have too.

Changing parenting styles takes thought, reflection, education but sometimes parents act passive, accepting what happens as unchangeable. Alot of answers can be found on Amazon in the book section. Lots of rich valuable parenting advice.