To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

WhH20sky.

My kids would be incredibly humiliated if I layed out the punishment they get if they publicly humiliate me with their behaviour in front of their friends. Damn right.

I just don't need to discipline them there and then to please the people around me. The punishment fits the crime in our household. My kids get warnings in public, they get disciplined in private.

May not be your style... But mine are growing up as lovely well rounded young people.

However when I mentioned this: I was talking about my older DC and simply putting it out there, that not everyone's parenting techniques must match. My 2 year old - is dealt with there and then, for obvious (hopefully) reasons

My daughter is three and going through a phase like this. I sometimes think the neighbors are going to call SS on me because from the outside it must seem like something is wrong with the amount of screaming she is doing on a daily basis. I have tried everything and today have started trying a completely new technique and final attempt at dealing with her behaviour before I start seeking some help or guidance from an outside source.

I tell my daughter no constantly, I have tried the naughty step, taking things away, telling her "I can't hear you when you scream" and teaching her how to use her inside voice, I have tried to ignore the behaviour, I don't buy her things to appease her, I reward good behaviour, I try to distract her, I communicate with her, I show her a lot of love and care, I do my best. In fact most of her screaming is from her throwing a tantrum because I won't allow her something or let her do something naughty, or she is simply frustrated/overwhelmed and loses her temper for no apparent reason. I drive myself out of my mind trying to figure out how to stop or at least limit this kind of behaviour. I'm the kind of parent who doesn't like her to ring the bell on the bus unless it is our stop and will only allow her to do it once. That sounds silly but it isn't when you are facing a full blown toddler meltdown on a crowded bus because you are trying to instill good behaviour in your child. I'm sure a lot of people would view my DD as a spoiled brat from the way she behaves, but she really is not. She is the sweetest and most loving child and knows how and when to say please and thank you and is cheery and warm with everyone. She is just very easily overwhelmed and excitable and starts acting up because of it. I've actually stopped taking her to any public place like a restaurant because I know she will become overly excited and start trying to climb on everything, I will inevitably have to get her to stop and she will scream the place down. It is embarrassing and I feel judged even though I am doing my best to address the behaviour. I WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A MUCH CALMER AND CONTENTED CHILD IF I WASN'T DISCIPLINING HER OR ATTEMPTING TO INSTILL GOOD BEHAVIOURAL HABITS. Some children are simply harder to deal with and I have friends who's children don't behave this way, but they don't judge me because they know first hand how I parent behind closed doors.

And for that reason I am inclined to withhold judgement on your friends and their child.

So what would YOU do in that situation? If a child is misbehaving or having a tantrum in a restaurant my solution would be to pick them up and take then home, no excuses. How would you have felt if your friends did that then? Would you then be moaning that they had left you in the restaurant in the middle of dinner? Perhaps their little one was having a particularly bad day, perhaps they were a little embarrassed and not able to do the things they would normally do to discipline the boy because they were also trying to be polite and entertain you? Personally if we were staying with friends and their little one was being like this all day I wouldn't even suggest then going out for a meal as it would obviously be really stressful for them, I'm sure they are feeling extremely embarrassed and stressed out by the while thing too.

woo I think it is better to be friends with your children, tbh. I'd rather be friends with mine than raging and arguing with them.

My kids are almost 20 and 18 now. I know they great young men because I have been told by many people. I'm perfectly happy with how I parented them, it probably wouldn't be the smug MN way, but hey! Lots on here have a long way to go before they get theirs to adulthood!

I dunno lemon, i reckon the victorians had the right idea to parenting, i think a few good beatings and working down the pits or textiles factories is a very good idea...of course social services might have something to say

We have made such a cut in our friends

This concerns me greatly

Trouble I think issues can be dealt with immediately without embarrassment. enforcing boundaries sounds tough but actually can be done very quietly, fairly and positively

Onepot

fillet an behind you 100% some children are harder than others. My brother was a riteshite growing up, despite good parenting from my folks, but he was a complete brat, i was really easy going, never did toddler tantrums, never did the whole teen angst. But as adults my bro has done super well in life, and really good company, me on the other hand? Well i just lumber on!
Yes parenting plays are part but so do genes, its the whole nature nurture debate isnt it ?

Quite a few comments saying 'don't take kids to restaurants' because they won't enjoy it.

My dc are 6 and 4 and they love going to a restaurant for dinner. We've been to a mix of Pizza Hut/pub/local Chinese/slightly better restaurants over the years, appropriate for their age.

Not all kids detest it. Mine love choosing from the menu, being treated as grown ups (they always order their own meals), being allowed to have a glass of coke as a treat. Great fun as far as they're concerned, even though they know they have to sit quietly and nicely.

filet you need to read 'the highly sensitive child' by aron. will make a big difference to both of you

At least i am told i never did toddler tantrums...i cant actually remember, but my dad did mention the other day how much like dd is akin to my bro...lucky lucky me!

I'm sure they can lemon.

This works with ours. Aside from the youngest they get warnings in public and disciplined in private.

Again- the point was that there is not simply ONE way to parent since every child is different and responds differently.

So let me get this all straight.
There are two types of parent, either Victorian style parents who beat their children who only behave out of fear. They judge other parents and are smug. And passive aggressive middle class parents who just say 'don't do that darling' and let their children climb on tables in restaurants.

I just want to check because opinion here seems that there is no middle ground.

Yes onepot it really is! I'm hoping that if I ever have another child it will take after me as DD seems to have taken after her dads side of the family

It is just her personality to be high strung and excitable and as a parent I just do my best to funnel her energy the right way. People who don't have kids like my DD I doubt would really understand it.

I know that there are some parents who don't do a stellar job out there but not all kids behave this way because of ineffective parenting.

I wonder if there is some sort of full moon ritual I can do to assure a calmer child the next time around

Na pip there are loads of different styles, its just such an emotive subjects as trouble pointed out different children need different parenting and that can be hard, none of us are born with an innate sense of being able to parent, you kinda have to adapt, but certainly some chidren are more difficult than others. Also its easy to forget that parents have other worries than just parenting...we are humane to, and if you have other worries that may be more in the forefront of your mind than telling little Jonny to stop being a brat, coz thinking dh having an affair/ worrying about how you meet the bills/ functioning on bugger all sleep/ wondering if the lump on your breast might be something serious... It all impacts

Yup Pipbin appears this way.

Trouble is this is just a snapshot of this child and their parenting, who knows if this is the norm or the exception and just OP's bad luck (after all she seems to be striking off a lot of people over their parenting from her friends list)

It's the fact she's losing so many friends that makes me think there's likely a bit more to it.

fillet i disagree with my dad, my dd takes after my mil

Yanbu!

Lemon thank you for the recommendation. I knew she was a very sensitive child from as young as six months because she would only fall asleep on my chest or strapped to my body for the first year of her life. I have read Dr Sears's breakdown of the intensive child and it fits her like a glove. I just didn't realize how intense it would get as she got older. My next step was going to be researching some good literature on the subject.

Other titles for you fillet supper nanny by Jo frost....she has written quite a few, but joking aside, she made a huge eberdifference to how i parent my dd,
I cant remember the title of her best book, but will try and find it tomorrow and pm with it

Onepot

Fear is a strong word...but I do think there is a healthy amount of 'fear' that a child can have for a parent. I think many would attempt to call it 'respect', but in a young child I don't honestly think 'respect' is a concept they understand...and 'fear' is more accurate.

A few months back, ds1 (6) did something he has never, ever done before. I'd told him 'No' to something when we were out and he raised both hands and hit/pushed me. Hard...with all his force.

My jaw nearly hit the ground initially because I was so shocked. But I didn't discipline him then, I told him that I didn't expect that behaviour from him and we would discuss it when we got home. I think my face probably said it all and I know that during the car ride he had that 'Oh shit, i'm in trouble' feeling because I could tell from his face and how completely subdued he was in the 5 minutes it took us to drive home.

But not because he's scared that he's going to get beaten to a pulp when he gets home But because he knew he'd fucked up, he knew that was behaviour that we wouldn't tolerate and he knew there'd be consequences, and he was nervous (as you are when you're 6) about what those consequences may be.

Which is my interpretation of a 'healthy' amount of fear.

The number of kids I see lashing out at parents to get a 'no darling, don't hit mummy, it's not nice' and then no further discussion/discipline makes me cringe.