To HATE the way my friends educate their children?

[Littlefrenchmummy]

I love reading things on mumsnet, especially this section. Today I was confronted with a situation that happens so often in my life and really gets me angry... You ladies are very honest so tell me if Im being a bitch or if you would feel the same.

Today my husband and I caught up with some old friends, like us they have a 4 year old boy. From the minute we met to when we left he trantrumed. He cried for EVERYTHING and not once was disciplined. (By that I dont mean punched in the face btw, I just mean told to behave).
He cried because he could only use his bike and not his scooter (sat on the pavement and screamed for 10 mins while we waited. Eventually parents gave in).
He cried because we crossed the road before him.
He cried because we were talking.
He cried because he couldn't get juice at the restaurant even though his parents were ordering him the juice.
He stood on tables, rode his scooter in the restaurant, shouted constantly.
He wouldn't speak to my son, only watch cartoons on his parents phone, wouldn't share the crayons to draw even though he didn't want to draw.
Kicked his brothers pram while he was sleeping. Etc etc... And all his parents were saying was "OH NO, if you do this again we are going to get cross!"

I just can't bare it. Its so horrible to sit through this, you can't have a conversation, my son isn't having fun, people at the restaurant are staring. I never want to hang out with my friends again. I love them but I hate their child, or more exactly I hate the way they educate him and turn him into complete dick head.

I have so many friends like them... so so many. Some worse, some less, but the result is the same: hanging out with them is painful. People who think you dont need to educate your children, that they have 'difficult' kid who cry a lot. They think its normal that if their child screams their name in the middle of a conversation, 10x times during 1 conversation, they should always stop and say yes darling instead of teaching them not to interrupt and wait while adults are talking.

I know some children are more difficult than others and that disorders exist. One of my son's is difficult and has a terrible character, still he doesn't behave like this. If I let him he would but I dont. I also have friends who have children with disorders, but in the cases Im talking about, its just complete lack of education.

Im loosing so many friends over this. I stop answering calls and make excuses not to hang out with them because I can't tell them how to educate their children. Who can tell a mother in the face that you dont like their child's behaviour? How awkward would that be?

We have made such a cut in our friends and now I am so picky. it sucks !
But why aren't people educating their children to behave?

Am I being unreasonable to feel this way or do other parents feel like this?

To me it isn't about the child's behaviour (DD1 is a very calm child DD2 would rip through a restaurant like a whirlwind) it's about the parents response to it.

All children need chance to learn and all are different. I don't judge them having a tantrum/acting up. I absolutely judge a parent doing sweet fanny adams about i.

its ultimately not just a parents perogative they have a responsibility to not negatively impact others in society with their passivity. Its parents like these that means my DD1 comes home crying from the noise/behaviour of some of the little gits in her class as the teachers try and undo the damage their parents have done.

Yanbu

My older two once had a farting competition in the midwife's waiting room. I think the proper name for them that day was wee shites.

:P

Dickhead is not appropriate language for a four year old.

My DD I had no trouble going anywhere with; people complement me on her manners, pleasantness and sociability.

DS is another matter. He is a lovely, sociable child, likes engaging with people and likes to be very active. Taking him to a restaurant if it is not super-child friendly is a waste of time and money. Costa he can cope with and likes for a treat, but I just would not take him to a big dinner, he would not cope. Too many people, too much noise, he would be bored. He is 3.5, there is plenty of time for him to manage big meals.

If DS behaved like the child you describe, OP, I would think he was tired and overwhelmed. I would not discipline him, I would take him home, but that is because I know what triggers him to be like that

This "lady" says ODFOD.

Some posters seem to have got their knickers in a twist over my 'my children wouldn't dare behave like that' comment.
The reason they wouldn't isn't because they are frightened/scared of me (somewhat dramatic language used there), but because they know there'd be consequences they wouldn't like should they choose to behave badly.
I can assure you they're not quaking in their boots at the sound of my footsteps, but yes, they do know how to behave in public. Shoot me now.

Well good for you.arethere.

I'll take my shit parenting award now.Because sometimes my kids misbehaved in public.

I've got friends with tricky kids but i can see the parents try very hard and the child is more sensitive then the average child (can smell more things, feel more deeply, can be overwhelmed with too much stimulation). They have great boundaries but there are still moments when things go pear shaped. The kids are generally emotionally well held though and we both consider each others situation. Lots of open caring discussions.

I also have friends with no boundaries who shout empty threats and being with these families is stressful and hard work. I prefer to meet these friends in the evenings. Hopefully the kids will calm down with time though?

Southeast

My dd is 4 and was "Star of the week" at school this week. (Smug mummy emoticon but keep going - there is a relevance.)

We told her she could choose a treat and what would she like to do?

Her answer was that she wanted to ride her bike to our local pub and go out for Sunday lunch.

So that is what we are going to do tomorrow.

She is ridiculously well behaved which I mainly put down to her personality combined with vaguely decent parenting from us and the fact that she has been taken out for food at least once a week since the day she was born. [Too lazy to cook emoticon.]

Her brother is far less well behaved but I put that down to a combination of his personality, the fact that unlike dd - who would get full attention from us when she was his age - he has to share with dd and the fact that he is 1 and we are mis-remembering what dd was like at 1.

This reminds me of a pub lunch we went to recently. A few friends brought kids along, all aged about 4 and 5. We were sitting outside in the large pub courtyard which wasn't very busy, so the kids were being allowed to run around a bit, which was fine as long as their parents kept an eye on them.

One of the children, a boy aged about 5, started launching himself off one of back of the bench seats right next to another group, screaming RAAAAAAAA, over & over again. Pretty annoying when you're trying to have an adult lunch. One of the diners from the other group said to Small Boy "hey don't do that." His father (friend of DH's) heard them and "oh no don't worry he's fine - he won't hurt himself." The group of diners just nodded but you could they weren't worried about him hurting himself, they wanted to enjoy their meal in peace! Someone else in our group grabbed Small Boy and moved him off. I don't think the Dad in this scenario was a Bad Parent as such but increasingly some people don't seem to realise that their children are (a) not cute to everyone and (b) not the centre of everyone's universe.

woooo them misbehaving doesn't earn you a shit parenting award, ALL children have their moments. It's how you dealt with it that's the question. Or more importantly IF you dealt with it.

That doesn't have to be telling off/leaving. It could be working out why eg tired/hungry and fixing that. Having a conversation about appropriate behaviour. Whatever works for your kid.

Doing

Fgs woooo, you seem to be taking this thread remarkably personally for some reason. Do you have a 4 year old, live in London, and were out with your French friend today or something?!?

Picking up on the comment about how we were ourselves brought up my parents wouldn't have dreamed of taking us to a restaurant when we were small. They were very much adult spaces. We went to friends houses for meals fairly frequently, but only for lunch when there wouldn't have been the waiting around quietly that going to a restaurant entails. Evening meals would have been for adults only and after our bedtimes, and as I recall that was up to the age of at least 10, possibly 12. Tea was for children only and didn't have such tight table manner rules.

My daughter idolises her brother and copies him. He is immune to consequences, he just cannot see / think behind the immediate. I've spent the day with Inlaws reminding him every 8 seconds not to do Annoying Thing whilst they judge me silently for not controlling him/trying to quash his soul alternatively. It's not always possible sadly to remove him which is the only way to stop the cycle. I have given him his tablet in a restaurant this week to avoid the stress and got judged for that too. But everyone got to eat in peace! Other days he's a frigging delight

Wooo oversensitive much?

Yes, but what are your consequences arethereanyleftatall? I would love to know since I have a 5yr DS who consistently does not care what the consequences are.

My children are all grown up. I don't think they were dickheads at 4 though.

My dd, at the age of four, had impeccable table manners. Very cute drinking her water out of a wine glass and would happily spend the evening at the dinner table being a delight.

Her older sister on other hand sits there as if she has ants in her knickers. She fidgets, clumsily knocks over everything and looks so bored. She tolerates it though due to my evil glares.

ds who is nearly 3. He's a shambles. I cant take him out. I have to put lazytown on my phone via youtube otherwise I'd have no voice left after constantly reprimanding him.

OP - YANBU but the other parents are NBU either. If you had hyper son for a year maybe you will have been worn down to passive parenting too.

I think the french culture is far more geared to dining, therefore have higher expectations of their children. Although, scootering in the restaurant isnt viewed well in English culture either.....

Put it down to a bad day and have another go on a family day out with them. You might be suprised.

My children are well behaved and well mannered. We've never had to leave anywhere with them and have been complimented a lot by strangers on their behaviour (do I win )! Yes, we worked on it, but imo a lot of it is down to luck.

With children, and especially teenagers, you reap what you sow. If you put effort in, you get effort back. I have never had a screaming, shouting argument with either of my kids, never been in a slamming door episode. They respect me, I respect them. We're friends. I have no idea how it happened. It just did.

Someone up thread mentioned passive parenting being a problem and I have to agree. I don't agree with a heavy handed rigid Victorian disciplinarian approach either but I do think there is a mid way point which involves consistent boundaries being kept with love, fairness and socially appropriate behavior in mind

I've always been friends with my kids, but I've read on MN that that's not allowed either.

You can't win really can you?

QTPie, I agree the UK is a mishmash of parenting styles - I just think the indication in the OP that she's cut off quite a few friends for what she perceives as unacceptably lax parenting suggests there may be a cultural difference contributing to this. It's possible she's encountered parents at the more permissive end of UK norms.

I realise that my own perception that a English middle-class parenting is basically twitchy and angst-ridden isn't accurate either, but it's something I've come across in other Irish UK-resident parents, so there's possibly a kernel of truth somewhere.