... to think school are making a big fuss about not a lot (toilet training)

[PaddingtonFromPeru]

DD 3.5 started school nursery in Sept. She has always struggled a bit with getting to the loo to wee, but was totally dry throughout August.
School policy states children must be toilet trained (which DD is/was). She was dry for the first 1-2 weeks of school and since then has had an accident nearly every day.
I think this may have something to do with her not liking one of the key workers very much, as she often mentions she is scared of her and the key helper started at this time as cover for someone off sick.
School are making a really big think of all the accidents, to the extent that I have had to take DD to the doctors for blood tests (def. not diabetes or a kidney problem) and have now had to get an endocrinologist involved.
To me, although school policy does say they prefer children toilet trained, they should bear in mind it is only week 5 or so of term and try to get to the bottom of the "scared of key worker" problem. AIBU?

YANBU. The change from being at home to starting school can be enough for any toilet trained child to regress a little.

Is it just the one accident a day? Sounds perfectly normal to me. And, yes, they should be wondering why your DD is scared of her keyworker.

A 3.5 year old having accidents in a totally new environment is probably quite normal! My 4 year old just started nursery (Scotland) and had an few weeks where accidents became common again - after a year of no accidents at all!

I think they need to remember they're dealing with small children and forget about the doctors...ridiculous!

I am horrified

YANBU.

Go back to the school armed with everything you've just told us:

1. the policy states it isn't necessary for chn to be toilet trained, only preferrable and 2) you think the relationship with her key worker could be a barrier to her overcoming this.

Theyre not allowed to discriminate against incontinent children by law, so you could stick to your guns, but have you looked at any other schools, because id hate to hear their reaction if faced with a real issue

Your poor little dd. It is normal to have accidents in a new situation. The fact that they are making such a big fuss won't be helping either.

It's not her key worker, but the woman is there for another group in her class and DD is still scared of her. Accidents - can be 1 a day up to 3 a day (depending on how tired DD is to be fair - we can cram a lot into weekends! But she is dry at home unless extremely tired!) Thanks for the support.

I would find a nicer nursery. Shes scared of a member of staff and its hampering her toilet training. I don't have any time for any nursery who make such a big fuss over potty training.

Argh! This is a recurring theme in mumsnet.
I'm going to keep quiet mostly apart from to say

1. none of the below applies if your child has SN or some physical problem bor if it's occasional accidents nor would I ever make a child feel bad or not help them but...
2. it really is impossible with funding and ratios we have to manage lots of incontinent children. It really impacts the care and activities we can provide.
3. most children should be able to be dry during the day by age 3ish
4. if your working full time and aren't able to toilet train yourself, you can find childcare provision pre-3 years that will help you. If they don't/ won't you may need different arrangements. Okay rant over and apologies to the original poster.

Ps and hopefully more helpfully (apologies again OP) in the case of OP's DD sounds like anxiety and probably would be improved with a new key worker. Can you ask to change it?

They sound awful op, she is only newly toilet trained and so little in a new environment what the hell do they expect! They are nit school children. But pre schoolers. I would remove her tbh, this ores sure can it be doing her any good. Dd went to a fantastic nursery attached to the school where potty training was not a requirement, chikdren did it when they were ready. They even told me to stop training dd who was just 3 at the time, as she was nit ready yet.

What a lovely post Primary.

OP is talking about a child who is toilet trained & who has only started having accidents after starting a new Nursery/school.

But, hey, if it's easier for you to assume her parents are too lazy/too busy at work to bother toilet training then you carry on thinking that.

I disagree primary, 3 is still really young, and some don't get it until 4. As long as children are toilet trained when starting proper school that's the main thing.

Just purely out if interest is this a nursery that's physically attached to a school?

It is illegal to say they have to be toilet trained, also 1 accident a day is not unusual especially this early on in a new term. I am a senco in a primary school and wouldn't see this as a 'problem'. Incidentally do the teachers making a fuss have children of their own (makes a huge difference - their future children will be potty and phonic trained by 18 months) and how old are they (again a huge difference - they were all potty trained at birth in the 50s apparently)!

What a fucking nasty post Primary. I am sitting here just shaking my head at the thought of a 3.5 year old being scared of one of her key workers and instead of them trying to make sure she gets her confidence back and working with her parents so she can become continent again, they are making her Mother waste NHS resources by forcing her to be referred to specialists.

I honestly think we are putting children into a school environment too young and I ABSOLUTELY think we are putting them under so much pressure when they are tiny. It upsets me as a stranger so OP you must just want to cry with frustration im sure.

Why have you had to take your dd to the doctors, I don't understand.
At this age accidents do happen if a child is unsettled.
Maybe she isn't ready for school at only 3, could you try another nursery or just take her to play groups until she starts school.
It does seem very formal and as though they expect too much of little ones, it's only nursery and they don't even have to start school until 5.

I would reply that as she is dry at home and was for the first 2 weeks then they need to review themselves to see how they are causing this which is v upsetting for your dd.

Poor little mite. As a teacher I had pupils up to about 6 or 7yrs old who had 'accidents'. We had a cupboard with clean pants and the welfare lady took them out and dealt with it in seconds. What a fuss by the school. And incredible to suggest the little girl is 'ill' in some way!! I expect now she's freaked out by all the hooha and stress. So sorry.

JubJubBirds - yes, nursery attached to a school.
benannoli - the main overall teacher looks about 20 (to my rather ancient pair of eyes!) and has no kids, so I do wonder if that may be part of it. But the key workers all mostly look a bit older. DD loves her key worker. It is just one of the other key workers she doesn't like. from what I can make out, this woman is a bit loud (maybe shouts - not sure - hard to get to the bottom of with a 3 year old!)
Otherwise DD seems to like the place and the main teacher and has friends etc so I'm reluctant to move her.

If a nursery told you to bring your daughter to me for blood tests and referral to an endocrinologist I'd be furious. At 3.5 many youngsters aren't completely reliable and it is easy for things they are unsure about to make them start wetting again. Your poor daughter.

And Primary, your post said most children are dry not all. So consequently by your own definition some are not and therefore support is needed.

Paddington, if you're really not happy with her care remember you can move her. I am sorry the school are treating you both this way.

The following is completely anecdotal I'm sure, but I've found that nurseries attached to schools have quite a different feel to them. Nursery teachers who are part of a school often have a slightly different approach/attitude/set of priorities too.

There's no way i'd leave a child of mine there now, I wouldn't be reluctant to move her.
they make friends very easy at this age and her health and well being is more important than a nursery that sounds dire, pushy and not suitable for your child.
Why not look at the others in your area the differences can be amazing and dc suit different settings.
I hope you get it sorted OP, your dc sounds upset or worried about the setting from what you post.
She may be better at nursery one day and with you at a play group for another.

And yet Primary speaks practically. It may not be what you want to hear, but it is what it is.
Teacher can clean very occasional accidents, but it is not their job to change children during classes.

Though are they really forcing you to do all these exams? That's really OTT.