... to think school are making a big fuss about not a lot (toilet training)

[PaddingtonFromPeru]

DD 3.5 started school nursery in Sept. She has always struggled a bit with getting to the loo to wee, but was totally dry throughout August.
School policy states children must be toilet trained (which DD is/was). She was dry for the first 1-2 weeks of school and since then has had an accident nearly every day.
I think this may have something to do with her not liking one of the key workers very much, as she often mentions she is scared of her and the key helper started at this time as cover for someone off sick.
School are making a really big think of all the accidents, to the extent that I have had to take DD to the doctors for blood tests (def. not diabetes or a kidney problem) and have now had to get an endocrinologist involved.
To me, although school policy does say they prefer children toilet trained, they should bear in mind it is only week 5 or so of term and try to get to the bottom of the "scared of key worker" problem. AIBU?

I agree New Era putting a little child just out of nappies for a battery of tests she does nit need. She us 3 fgs and just potty trained. I woukd seriously remove my child out of that environment. Sounds quite stressful for a little toddler.

One of mine regressed when he started nursery (unfamiliarity with the environment, and frankly enjoying himself too much to bother taking himself off to the toilet). I was told that they "didn't believe he was toilet trained". - he had been for at least 6 months at that point.

I had every sympathy with the staff, since in his case he pooed himself every otherbday and that is not nice to deal with

The problem is low staff/ child ratios in school settings.

Well ofafrench they should not be offering facilities to very young chikdren if they cannot make sure they are clean and dry!

That is why ds 2.7 is staying in his lovely pre school until he starts school. Where they have 20 staff per session and nursery nurses nit teachers! It is a clan and relaxed environment when you are there, ds is always clean and changed.

20 kids

Primaryteacher

You show your ignorance when you speak to someone like that who has toilet trained her child.

It is not the child's problem that the school can't provide reasonable care for small children.

It's against the law to discriminate against children because of continence issues. If a school or nursery has an unusually high number of children needing extra support then the school need to put provisions in place.

They're not forcing me, but have suggested I take her to the dr as the problem has gone on for a while. That's why we've ruled out diabetes and kidney probs and why we've moved on to the endocrinologist. I do feel a bit embarrassed about the whole thing and want to be seen to be helpful, rather than nightmare problem parent, so am complying so far, but will certainly appraise them of the key worker situation. That's only become clear recently.

I'd be surprised if secondary care don't bounce the referral back. Certainly in Glasgow they refuse to see children until they are 7 - quite reasonably.

I would change settings if this carries on and school keep suggesting un necessary illnesses just because a pre schooler is wetting in an unfamiliar setting. What about outting it back to them and asking them what are they doing to help dd become less anxious.

When DD continued to have accidents age 5 I took her to the doctors but that was at my instigation not schools, who were never less than entirely practical and unruffled.
What we got was a full exam from a paediatrician, ultrasound scan to check plumbing (normal) and advice on sorting her constipation. That was it. And she was 5 and had never been completely dry.
I do think if you've ruled out the obvious, as you clearly have, anything else on the medical side is unlikely to be vigorously pursued by docs until she is a good bit older (I could be wrong. Am not a doctor).
Occam's razor id suspect the issue with the key worker and would ask preschool to look at that.

It's interesting your Dd's nursery think that something medical must be the cause when she was dry until the scary key worker started. Rather than guilt you into going to the doctors, what have they done to look at the environment in the nursery and how it seems to have caused your daughters formally sound toileting skills to regress?

I would look at changing nursery if they stick with that opinion. I work in a nursery attached to a primary and we cannot refuse children who are still in pull ups or not completely toilet trained. We do however prefer the children to come in pants or at least get changed into pants whilst in nursery as we are in a great position to help the parents with toilet training. Even children who have been toilet trained for a while can have accidents in a new environment, it takes a while for their confidence to build. The first term in nursery I spend a massive amount of time changing children who have had accidents and that's just part of being in a nursery, parents and children should never be made to feel bad about this.

This is one of many reasons why 3 year olds should not be in school.
It's perfectly normal to have accidents well past 5 let alone 3.
Oh I really should not click on these threads.

I personally would not have taken her for any tests, unless I have noticed her having accidents at home. You know why she is having accidents, she is telling you. If there was something wrong, it would be seen in the home. Blood tests, endricrinologist my goodness for a just trained 3 year old. Your dd is clearly unhappy there, move settings to mabey a pre school not attached to a school where it would be more geared for young children.

How are the nursery, making the environment relaxed for young children? How are they dealing with your dd when she has an accident? What is their attitude like? Mabey they are also piling the stress onto your dd so that she feels anxious.

Exactly Warmandtoasty, that was the outlook of dds school attached Nursery. They even told me to stop putting pants on as she just wasen't ready yet and told me to relax about it and she will do it in her own time, which she did and before she started school. DD now has a dx of ASD but that was a great relief not feeling the pressure from the nursery.

Absolutely Aero, each child is different. We have some children still in pull ups because they are clearly not ready to be in pants, we would never push this. We also have some children who's parents want to do toilet training but for some reason or other finds this difficult so we support with that. The nursery should be supporting children, as making parents and the child anxious about having accidents will only increase the likeliness of it happening.

Ridiculous, she's not even four yet! As any medic with any early years knowledge is going to say. She's not wetting constantly, she's having an accident a day, it happens. And the admissions policy is against the Equality Act and discriminatory. And nuts.

Wrong nursery OP. Some schools struggle to get their head around the idea that nursery aged children are not just really tiny year sixes and have very different needs, ratios and provision shouldn't even come into it. A day nursery isn't going to blink twice at meeting all her care needs and her wellbeing as an essential part of meeting her educational needs, and may be more interested in her developing good relationships with the adults caring for her.

I'm getting polite pressure from my dd's preschool to potty train her. She's 2.3!
We tried briefly in the summer but she wasn't ready, lots of accidents! Every day when I pick her up they mention that she needed changing and perhaps I should send her in pants/pull ups? Erm, no thanks. I've been waiting until half term to have another 'proper go' at it where I can keep her in with me and manage any accidents for the first week at least. I don't believe being gung-ho about it and just sending her in with 5 changes of clothes to have lots of accidents at preschool will be productive or help her confidence??

In every other respect they're wonderful, but I wish they would shut up about toilet training. She's barely 2! If it doesn't work at half term, we will try again at Christmas. I really believe with some schools it is more about resources than what they actually believe is right for the child unfortunately

Charity why don't you have a meeting with the manager and tell them what you feel. She is only 2 fgs, a lot of toddlers still are not ready. They don't sound like they know much about child development to keep pressuring you to toilet train a 2 year old.

My dd 7.5 now, the nursery attached to the school is changing: new head, and deputy head in January. Also my friend works there part time, and has told me it is absolute chaos, and sessions have up to 40 children at a time and not enough staff. Unlike when dd was there, it now does not have a dedicated teacher. So therefore when ds is 3 in January, he will be staying at his nice relaxed pre school until he starts school in 2 years time.

Name: primaryteacher

if your working full time

Really?

Just to reinforce my argument, DD went today and has had no accidents. Key worker she is scared of wasn't there today (not sure why). Time to talk to the main teacher about it I think.

Yes it is padding ton and no more tests to please tge school, unless YOU are concerned there might be a problem.

Aeroflot I haven't had a chance to talk properly to the manager yet. It's always manic at pick up/drop off. Think I will email her this week to arrange a chat. If nothing else, I will need their support when she goes back after half term, so we can discuss that. I think they will be very supportive.
I just don't like feeling like a 'lazy parent' for not toilet training before, but she's so little, and hasn't been ready at all so far!

A 3.5 year old wetting himself doesn't require a visit to the gp.