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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to feel uncomfortable about my son praying at school?

405 replies

KirjavaTheCat · 20/10/2014 11:53

DS is four and has just started reception. A couple of days ago, we were playing and he said something like "...and then we put our hands together without clapping like this, and shut our eyes and say, 'dear God' and then we say things"

I asked where he learned that and apparently they pray every morning. I find this odd because his class is made up of children from all different religious backgrounds, and it isn't a faith school. Why are they learning to worship?

We're not religious. I don't think I'm comfortable with him praying to 'God' every day. Should I say something? AIBU?

OP posts:

catkind · 20/10/2014 16:56

And DS was in the nativity play. There wasn't any praying in it, it was just a story, no problem with that. How many drama productions over the course of their school life will be actual true stories?

BackOnlyBriefly · 20/10/2014 16:58

I find myself saying this a lot, but churches and religious organisations do not agree that it has no effect. When it comes up they insist that it's absolutely vital that children be made to pray to their god from the earliest age possible.

Why do you think they do that?

3bunnies · 20/10/2014 16:59

I thought about that thread too Ragwort been on MN too long if you do withdraw your child do make sure that you are clear about what they can and cannot take part in.

catkind · 20/10/2014 17:03

Fairenuff, it's a lot harder to judge whether a religion is true or not if you're starting from a default position of believing it. There is a clear message in Christianity that faith is good, questioning is bad. It took me a long time to fight free of those assumptions, I don't want my children subjected to the same.

Twas a figure of speech about the "dear god". I hope you know what I mean. If a teacher is saying a prayer like they believe it's real and important, then DS would think it was.

BackOnlyBriefly · 20/10/2014 17:05

I had to get over religious belief too as a child. It would have been so much better if I'd been told "this is what some people believe" in the first place.

Hakluyt · 20/10/2014 17:05

"In KS a prayer takes less than 30 seconds. Really, it's not the big deal that a lot of people seem to think it is."

So why do it? Why not have a few minutes of reflection that everyone can join in? What good does it do

MothershipG · 20/10/2014 17:13

I hope that none of the atheists on here got married in a church or had their child christened wink

Those two things wind me up!

Well you'll be pleased to know that I didn't. But what winds me up is that it turned out that due to my principles my children lost out in their Primary and Secondary School options because tax funded church schools were free to discriminate against them.

So my children are exposed the Christian worship and then rejected by those same Christian institutions... Hang on, that doesn't sound very Christian to me.

hackmum · 20/10/2014 17:16

""In KS a prayer takes less than 30 seconds. Really, it's not the big deal that a lot of people seem to think it is"

In that case, you'd have no objection if, instead of worshipping God, they prayed to Krishna for 30 seconds? Or Allah? Or Satan for that matter? After all, why not - it's only 30 seconds.

Camolips · 20/10/2014 17:23

As said up thread, the religiousness of a school is solely down to the HT. You can't just say it's 30 seconds of mindless chanting. Maybe in your school. Not in our school. And certainly not in schools that have evangelical HTs. The daily worship farce needs abolishing. It's only kept alive in parliament and primary schools. Thankfully it is not mandatory at council meetings any more.

Fairenuff · 20/10/2014 17:30

So why do it? Why not have a few minutes of reflection that everyone can join in? What good does it do

As I already said, it is a few minutes of reflection that everyone can join in. Some will pray to their God and some will just be having a quiet think to themselves.

In that case, you'd have no objection if, instead of worshipping God, they prayed to Krishna for 30 seconds? Or Allah? Or Satan for that matter? After all, why not - it's only 30 seconds.

No, I would have no objection. They can pray to who they want, or they can have 30 seconds of quiet reflection, makes no difference to me. The important thing is that everyone is tolerant of each other and allows that very short quiet respectful time.

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 17:31

It is a pity that people don't understand that if a school is not a faith school it is non denominational and that there are no secular schools in England. All Heads should make sure that prospective parents have copies of the eduction acts on collective worship. It is up to the interpretation, of the acts, by Head and it is entirely possible that a community school is more religious than a faith school. Parents don't ask the right questions.

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 17:34

It is also unfortunate that parents of babies don't read these threads - they turn up every few months when parents are shocked to find that collective worship is the law. If they understood it they could ask the right questions. They don't ask and Heads assume they know.

Fairenuff · 20/10/2014 17:40

You can't just say it's 30 seconds of mindless chanting. Maybe in your school. Not in our school. And certainly not in schools that have evangelical HTs.

What prayers do they say in your school Camolips? And at how long do they last?

Our school has a morning prayer - I've just timed it (12 seconds), lunchtime prayer (9 seconds) and end of day prayer (14 seconds).

Daily collective worship ends with school prayer (22 seconds) so if you add it all up it is actually 57 seconds of prayers throughout the day but nothing longer than 30 seconds at a time.

Hakluyt · 20/10/2014 17:41

"As I already said, it is a few minutes of reflection that everyone can join in. Some will pray to their God and some will just be having a quiet think to themselves."

But the person leading the quiet reflection mentions God.

Why do you think this is important?

BookABooSue · 20/10/2014 17:41

I find it odd that despite the clockwork regularity of such threads appearing on MN, there are still so many people declaring ignorance of the current education system especially when most of them have come through the exact same system.

On one of the previous threads, a poster pointed out faith and education threads usually crop up round about the time when a political party has made some announcement on current education policy or a vocal pressure group is agitating for change. I don't know if that's the case this time too.

Hakluyt · 20/10/2014 17:42

Why are those 57 seconds of prayer so important to you?

Fairenuff · 20/10/2014 17:47

But the person leading the quiet reflection mentions God.

Why do you think this is important?

I don't. I haven't said that I think it's important. I have said that it is the history and culture of our society.

Why are those 57 seconds of prayer so important to you?

As above. I haven't said that they are important to me, I have just said what happens. I think a lot of people don't actually know what happens regarding prayers in school so there are a lot of assumptions being made. I'm trying to demonstrate that it's not the big thing that a lot of people seem to think, it's just 57 seconds out of a school day.

As I said, if parents do have a problem with it, they would have to approach their MP or something because this is a very well established tradition in schools and will take a long time to change very much without new rules being pushed through government.

Original poster

KirjavaTheCat · 20/10/2014 18:00

I'm not a member of any pressure group. This 'cropped up' because on Saturday my son mentioned that he prayed at school.

I've never seen a thread on this before, my apologies if it's been done to death.

OP posts:

Hakluyt · 20/10/2014 18:02

"I don't. I haven't said that I think it's important"

So why are you supporting it then?

Lovedmywildway · 20/10/2014 18:06

I haven't time to read the full thread - I got as far as someone describing it as 'brainwashing' and had to stop. I'm sorry - brainwashing? Really? I prayed at school as did every other single person I know. Are any of us brainwashed - er no. We've all grown up and made our own choices regarding religion. Most people I know aren't religious at all despite apparently being 'brainwashed'. What a gross overreaction.

BackOnlyBriefly · 20/10/2014 18:07

KirjavaTheCat it's important that it gets brought up regularly for new people to see.

On some of the threads I've been on we've had people getting quite hostile that something the churches do is being brought up again. I can see why they'd like to keep it quite of course.

rumbleinthrjungle · 20/10/2014 18:12

Dsis and I went to a C of E school. Atheist parents. Both 'exposed' to the same prayers, hymns, visits to the local church. Dsis is atheist and fine with it, I'm C of E and my faith has been important to me all my adult life. So I guess the 'let them make up their own minds' approach worked well on us. My parents were truly unbiased about it, where as often on MN you hear parents say 'I want my child to make up their own mind' but there is a subtext of 'but no exposing my child to Christianity as a potential faith, or they might choose wrong'.

I'd think many if not most people over the age of 40 in this country experienced prayers and hymns as an active daily part of their primary education and the evidence in the average church of a Sunday is that it didn't manage to have much brainwashing effect.

Fairenuff · 20/10/2014 18:12

^So why are you supporting it then?

I am just pointing out that (a) prayer is not compulsory in school (b) children are not conspicuous by not joining in (c) it's a positive message (d) it teaches religious acceptance and tolerance (e) it's part of our culture (g) it's a good life skill to learn to reflect quietly and (h) it only takes a few seconds out of our busy day.

It was meant to reassure parents who are perhaps not that well informed about what actually goes on in school regarding prayers.

PhaedraIsMyName · 20/10/2014 18:17

Faith school or not, EVERY school in the UK is obliged to perform a compulsory act of worship everyday

Maybe Scotland is different but definitely did not do this in my state comprehensive or my son's fee-paying non denominational school.

Lovedmywildway · 20/10/2014 18:18

The home is always going to be the biggest influence.

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