to feel uncomfortable about my son praying at school?

[KirjavaTheCat]

DS is four and has just started reception. A couple of days ago, we were playing and he said something like "...and then we put our hands together without clapping like this, and shut our eyes and say, 'dear God' and then we say things"

I asked where he learned that and apparently they pray every morning. I find this odd because his class is made up of children from all different religious backgrounds, and it isn't a faith school. Why are they learning to worship?

We're not religious. I don't think I'm comfortable with him praying to 'God' every day. Should I say something? AIBU?

I hope that none of the atheists on here got married in a church or had their child christened

Those two things wind me up!

I think relgion has its place, I am all for it being there and I know it does lots of good.

however i think the days of being taught to kow tow to people who are relgious as they are somehow better or more special is coming to an end and I think its wrong.

It is the law - which is pretty awful in itself, but some state schools keep it as a minor thing. What happens is if the head/governors are devout they will take advantage of their position to get everyone really worshipping their god. They may invite a priest in to teach the kids that their god is the only god and some will allow evangelists in for special services.

Having control of your DCs is very important to the church so they will do the most they can get away with.

You may observe a silence but whether or not its respectful, I am not sure.

Well, the being silent is the respectful bit. I was using respectful as an adjective as in you are silent out of respect for those who want to concentrate on their own private prayers/thoughts/meditations.

Not sure the respect does go two ways

No, not always. There will always be those who fail to show tolerance and respect which is one of the reasons why it is so important to teach it in schools. Btw in case anyone didn't know, in secondary schools, RE is a compulsory subjects, that's an example of how important governments consider religious tolerance.

So you think it's perfectly acceptable for the default position in a school to be thanking God for their lunch, and for 5 year olds whose parents do not want them to pray to be removed from the class room or reminded not to or in some other way made "conspicuous"?

Schools and children in classes don't make a big deal about whether or not the person next to them is praying. Unless parents specifically request it, children are not removed from the room, they just sit quietly for the duration of the 30 second prayer. Parents can teach their children to use this time to thank their own family for providing the food, if they wish. Or David Cameron if he is providing the free lunch.

There are many differences between children, especially in more multi-cultural schools and they learn from a very young age to be understanding and accepting.

Those of you who are so anti the Christian faith and any form of Christian prayers etc at school - do you celebrate Christmas? And how do you explain Christmas to your children if you don't believe in Christ?

Do you honestly explain to your children that some people wish to celebrate the birth of Christ but we don't believe in that but we will still have a jolly time sharing presents, partying etc as some sort of 'Winter Festival' .

Never forget the thread years ago when someone who was really anti religion & withdrew her child from any school worship then got miffed when the child wasn't part of the Nativity play .

I don't mean to be sarky or unpleasant but I am genuinely interested in your understanding of celebrating Christmas and Easter if you have no belief. .

cannot

I did.

The church was special to me as my parents - deceased were married in there and I wanted to feel as close to them as possible on my big day. Other family events in there too.
And its a lovely venue.

Please feel free to wind to get wound up

But what HARM does praying do, even to a god you don't believe in?

It's all a bit like the Father Christmas debate really. I have taught my children that there is no Father Christmas, but have also told them to be respectful of the fact that other children do believe in him. And I am quite happy for them to write letters to FC in school and participate in what is, for them, a shared fantasy. It doesn't do them any harm, and doesn't make them more likely to believe in him as my influence with them is a lot stronger.

I'm not religious, by the way, but don't feel strongly enough to call myself an atheist. I do like church music, the smell of incense, the language of the King James' Bible, a lot of devotional art, Medieval English literature, Milton, and the metaphysical poets.

"There are many differences between children, especially in more multi-cultural schools and they learn from a very young age to be understanding and accepting."

So why not have the 5 minutes of quiet reflection without mentioning God so everyone can join in? Together? Collectively?

do you celebrate Christmas? And how do you explain Christmas to your children if you don't believe in Christ?

I adore the story of the nativity and I push it, we have a nativity and we read the story of baby jesus as king, the humilty of it all.

It wouldn't be Christmas without it, but its a story. I am not keen on gorier aspets of easter but again the sense of humilty and selflessness.

I just dont want my children to think they are inferior to the worshipers. That sort of hushed reverence....these people are praying...

It's all a bit like the Father Christmas debate really
[confused

In no way shape or form is in anyway like father christmas.

Well, what HARM does not praying do?

Praying in school makes kids feel awkward. It encourages them to be Christian, if Christianity is taught as a fact. I know if I'd come home and said I'd prayed to God (if I was young enough to be so easily turned, when we moved to the UK) it would really upset my parents. It's also meaningless. Why teach kids to lie and do things they don't mean, for no benefit to them or others, and to against their personal beliefs and values, for no reason at all?

'I will tell DD that some people believe in different things, and she is free to believe whatever she likes.

The school is portraying god as a real thing that exists. .

Those 2 sentences contradict one another!!
Please remember to 70% of the population (their) god is a real thing that exists.

I don't mean to be sarky or unpleasant but I am genuinely interested in your understanding of celebrating Christmas and Easter if you have no belief. smile.

You do realise Christmas and Easter aren't Christian in origin don't you?

Christmas is an ancient midwinter festival and Easter is a spring/fertility festival. Christians tacked their stuff on top of preexisting events to make it easier to convert people.

I just dont want my children to think they are inferior to the worshipers. That sort of hushed reverence....these people are praying...

Being quiet and respectful is not saying that they are inferior to the worshippers though. It is just allowing the worshippers to be hushed and reverent -- for a very, very limited amount of time!

Yes, I do celebrate Christmas and Easter, because they are major festivals in the culture in which I live. I am happy for my children to be in Nativity plays because that is acting. I am happy for them to study RE- although I do think it is outrageous that it is compulsory to GCSE when history, for example, isn't. I just think that expecting 5 year olds to pray- or to make themselves conspicuous by not praying is not acceptable.

So why not have the 5 minutes of quiet reflection without mentioning God so everyone can join in?

Because that is not currently the culture of our country. It's part of our history and tradition, like the harvest festival, and the religious festivals. If you want to change it you would probably be best to start by writing to your MP.

Change does happen and, in fact, it is slowly happening but if you feel strongly that it's not enough for you, then my advice would be to do something constructive about it.

I disagree its marking out some children as special with a special more revered thing going on and the rest....side lined. thats the tilt.

I agree with H shared moments to think and or pray.

I don't celebrate Christmas, but I was never raised to do so, so wouldn't anyway. We did, just recently, build a sukkah for Sukkot, but that was because it's fun, something their cousins were doing and the holidays represent an important part of their cultural heritage. I would say the same for people raised Christian/culturally Christian/culturally British (or from another country where Christmas is a part of their culture, not just a religious festival) celebrating Christmas.

I'd be happy for a 10 year old to sit through prayers and choose whether or not to participate.

For a 4 yr old though (or rather my specific 4 yr old, and he's no better now he's 5), if they say "let us pray" they'll just assume that is the thing to do. They haven't learned much RE yet. They don't know that there are different religions, or that not having a religion is an option. If the teacher says "Dear god" then my DS would assume god is dear, whatever I said about the matter.

I've tried to introduce the subject of religions into conversation, but he's not really interested and it's slow progress. School haven't done much to help that over the reception year. (We've withdrawn him from religious observances not from RE, so that should still be happening.)

I want him to learn enough about religions to understand what he's choosing before he has to choose.

Children are not made conspicuous by not praying. Really, the children have no problem with it, it's so normal and such a non event in school if a person sits quietly instead of joining in with some rote learned words. In KS a prayer takes less than 30 seconds. Really, it's not the big deal that a lot of people seem to think it is.

OP, if you can spare the time I would strongly advise offering to volunteer in a class one morning, just for an hour or so and you would see this for yourself. Maybe that would put your mind at rest.

We don't celebrate Easter. And Christmas is a low-key affair in our house, we tend to place more significance on New Year.

But basically, everything Hakluyt said. ^^

Those of you who are so anti the Christian faith and any form of Christian prayers etc at school - do you celebrate Christmas? And how do you explain Christmas to your children if you don't believe in Christ?

I'm happy for people to be Christians if they want to be. I believe that worship has no place in schools, but RE is important. I will explain that Christmas is important to Christians because they are celebrating the birth of Jesus, but for us it's a time for us to be off work, swap presents and have a nice time.

Do you honestly explain to your children that some people wish to celebrate the birth of Christ but we don't believe in that but we will still have a jolly time sharing presents, partying etc as some sort of 'Winter Festival'.

She hasn't asked yet as she's only 4, but yes, that's what I'll say, only without the twee Winter Festival bit.

Never forget the thread years ago when someone who was really anti religion & withdrew her child from any school worship then got miffed when the child wasn't part of the Nativity play.

Ah yes, we can't have it all ways. But this our reward for the months of proselytising, we get to see our kids look cute dressed as a donkey.

I don't mean to be sarky or unpleasant but I am genuinely interested in your understanding of celebrating Christmas and Easter if you have no belief. smile.

My understanding is that it's family time, presents, a bumper edition of the Radio Times for Christmas and chocolate eggs for Easter. Of course I know that to some people there is a deep significance attached to these events.

I'm also very anti the atheists who have their weddings in church because they want their pictures to look better.

I hope that none of the atheists on here got married in a church or had their child christened wink

Whyever would an atheist want to do that? No, we didn't do either. Humanist wedding, big family first birthday bashes instead of naming celebrations. Can you even get married/christened unless you attend the church in question? I know friends who are religious and have still had to go and attend the specific church for x number of weeks before they're allowed to use it. And meetings with priests and stuff.

I want him to learn enough about religions to understand what he's choosing before he has to choose.

There is no time limit on choosing a religion. And you can change your mind at any time.

My two dcs went through all this and are nearly out of the school system and neither of them believe in any religion. But they have learned enough about our heritage to be able to converse and understand artistic representations, etc. They know enough words to join in with Christmas carols, for example.

Nothing earth shattering or restrictive, just the norms of our cultural society.

catkind if you get your ds to write a letter to FC addressed 'Dear Santa' or to leave a note for the tooth fairy 'Dear Tooth Fairy', or write thank you letter to 'Dear Aunty so and so' etc. he will soon learn that it's just a formal way of addressing someone in our society, rather than a religious leaning.