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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to feel uncomfortable about my son praying at school?

405 replies

KirjavaTheCat · 20/10/2014 11:53

DS is four and has just started reception. A couple of days ago, we were playing and he said something like "...and then we put our hands together without clapping like this, and shut our eyes and say, 'dear God' and then we say things"

I asked where he learned that and apparently they pray every morning. I find this odd because his class is made up of children from all different religious backgrounds, and it isn't a faith school. Why are they learning to worship?

We're not religious. I don't think I'm comfortable with him praying to 'God' every day. Should I say something? AIBU?

OP posts:
FreudiansSlipper · 20/10/2014 22:12

I am not happy about this either ds school is not a religious school

I am happy ds learning about other religions but I do not like him being told that God is there for him to listen to his prayers it is for him to make up his mind

and of course if his teacher is telling him this is what he will believe. I have to then tell him it is not what everyone believes

taking him out of class would exclude him I do not want that for him either

Wheresmypassport · 20/10/2014 22:17

I always find it strange how sure Atheiests are there is no God and almost seem sorry for anyone who believes in a God as they must be so deluded. The fact is no one knows and no one can argue the toss with anyone so it is a totally pointless argument.

FWIW I think its a shame if you don't let your DC join in collective worship at school, whats wrong with a 4 year old believing in God and that if someone dies they go to heaven! I would rather that then tell them to get real, there's nothing, whats the point? We all make up our own minds anyway, I don't want my DCs to just follow what I think is right and I don't think learning a few Bible stories and saying a few prayers in primary school is going to influence them so greatly that they can't make their own mind up later. I tell my DCs nobody knows, some people believe X and some people believe Y but none of us really know until we die.

scousadelic · 20/10/2014 22:17

I'm firmly in the "Let them have all the information and make their own minds up" camp. The school my children went to had collective worship and I don't think I, or most of the other parents, ever thought about it despite us having a range of beliefs (and non-belief) between us

As they got older the worship became part of their assemblies which also covered lots of other stuff and, once a week, was led by a visiting priest, rabbi, imam or other chosen person (I'm fairly sure they had an atheist among them too). I think it does promote tolerance and acceptance as they all learned about each others beliefs and that they are all equally valid

FWIW, my children are now grown up and have made up their own minds, DS is firmly atheist, DD is Christian

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:19

People seem to think children are empty vessels and can't think for themselves! I would have thought it was the basis for interesting discussions rather than just wanting a blanket censorship.
When they are under 5 yrs you get 'my mummy thinks..........' Then they hit school and you get 'miss x thinks.....' ( a bit irritating depending on what miss x thinks) and then by 7/8 yrs you get 'I think........'
If you haven't mentioned God at home it is, of course, a very exciting concept. They will work through it when the novelty wears off. Some parents make it very exciting by getting very uptight about it.

FreudiansSlipper · 20/10/2014 22:25

there is a difference between teaching children that Christians, muslims etc believe there is a god and lets pray to god

this is what I want my ds to be taught then he can make up his mind. telling him to pray to god is giving him direction something I do not want and as I have chosen a non religious school this is how it should be

why not have a 5 minute quite time to think maybe given a subject each day or the option to pray not children lets pray to god

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:27

And that is the healthy way scousadelic.
No one has yet told me- on any if these similar threads- why I should need my children to have the same beliefs as me. My atheist friend has one atheist DD and a Christian DD whose life centres on the local church. They all have a perfectly normal, loving family relationship. Why is it such a big deal to some people? Is she supposed to make him unhappy by not accepting it or thinking him deluded?

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:29

You have not chosen a non religious school!! You have chosen a non denominational school.unfortunately people don't understand this.

sandgrown · 20/10/2014 22:31

Whilst there may or not be a God it is surprising how many people turn to God when they are dying because it gives them comfort. I am not overly religious but I loved the songs (hymns) that were part of our daily assembly. I was so disappointed that my DC did not have a traditional Nativity at their school for fear of offending people. Of course that would be the same people who take Christmas holidays but do not believe in Jesus! Sorry rant over!

Fairenuff · 20/10/2014 22:32

Fairenuff many people on here have told you that it is often much more than 60 seconds per day in many schools - you haven't responded to the fact that lots of non-church schools have a vicar taking assemblies once a week.

I have responded to this. I even asked another poster about their prayers because they said something about long prayers and that's when I timed the ones we in our school.

I was only talking about prayers. The worship part will vary from school to school and from assembly to assembly. Worship is more about the moral teachings and can include children showing work, sharing ideas, creating a display, taking part in a team activity, etc. Worship will obviously take longer than an prayer.

Schools have to provide collective worship but children do not have to pray.

Does that answer your query?

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:33

Anyone who is under the misunderstanding that they have their child at a non religious school should Google 1998 Education Act - collective worship.

Primaryteach87 · 20/10/2014 22:35

Igotafreegoattoo at most schools I've worked at they've had clergy giving assemblies from time to time as well as sung Christian hymns. How much your child is withdrawn from would depend on how much you objected to those things. I've only know a couple of children be withdrawn and usually that had to be for most of assembly due to their parents not wanting them to hear bible stories read or sing hymns. Children are not singled out but other children often notice. I've usually discussed with parents of withdrawn children what they would like me to say to other children or their own child, if they ask.

I'm fully in favour of people having the option to withdraw but personally I would campaign very hard against prayer or faith being removed bed from school. I see it as very beneficial and positive. You have the right to disagree with me.

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:35

Schools have to hold collective worship. Children do not have to pray. It is impossible to make someone pray!

Pistone · 20/10/2014 22:35

I'd rather that than having a school that denies Gods existence. Yabu, it will do him more good than harm.

Hakluyt · 20/10/2014 22:35

"No one has yet told me- on any if these similar threads- why I should need my children to have the same beliefs as me."

You don't. I don't. That is one of the reasons I think RE is an important part of the curriculum.

BackOnlyBriefly · 20/10/2014 22:37

I would have thought it was the basis for interesting discussions rather than just wanting a blanket censorship.

"Let them have all the information and make their own minds up"

Are the Christians on here simply pretending not to understand that we're talking about worship not education?

To quote my own post:
Our objection is that they be required to worship a god. Note the word worship carefully as there seems to be a selective blindness amongst religious people on this point.

Worship is not the same as 'learn about'. 'Learn about' is not the same as worship.

Is that so hard to understand?

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:38

If people didn't want it it would be simple- a mass withdrawal from assembly. I suspect it wouldn't happen- the silent majority wouldn't do it. I wouldn't. I think a time of reflection is good. Test opinion in the playground.

FreudiansSlipper · 20/10/2014 22:38

ok then I have not chosen a faith school for a reason

the only option given is to exclude your child ds would not want this

there is no reason why in quiet time children could not pray

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:39

It is censorship of the worship part. Maybe your child is comfortable with it. They are not you.

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:44

Has OP asked her son if he is comfortable about it and discussed what to do if he isn't?

Delphiniumsblue · 20/10/2014 22:45

It was never anything that remotely bothered mine- if I hadn't known better I would have assumed they didn't have worship. They didn't pray.

FreudiansSlipper · 20/10/2014 22:45

no from the questions he is asking he is not he is confused

why did god make me, does he watch everyone all the time, how does he (always he...) know everything

then when asking who believes in god and who does not confuses him too

I rather he had an understanding of religious beliefs before he made up his mind about there being a god or not

BookABooSue · 20/10/2014 22:50

Back lots of posters have addressed the worship part.

Both posters of faith and athiests have explained why they don't object to their DCs actively participating in worship. And, in fact, why they see it as a positive experience. There's been a range of reasons provided from explanations as to what they think the DCs will be doing/thinking about; to appreciation of the subjects of the prayers (gratitude/thinking about others); to learning to be silent and respectful at different times.

I'm not entirely sure how you missed all the posts specifically addressing worship and not just education.

Hakluyt · 20/10/2014 22:52

As I said. Deliberately obtuse. It's the only possible explanation.

Fits in with the ignoring of difficult questions too. The only other explanation is the "Christians being smug/pig headed/intolerant/selfish" one. And based on the ones I know that can't be true.

Timeforanap1 · 20/10/2014 22:53

Coming in late to this, but surely asking questions and seeking answers to 'what's out there' is a really important part of a child's development? In the same way they explore whether Father Christmas is real or not, surely exploring the 'god' question is similar? I absolutely agree that schools must not be involved in brainwashing or telling children what to believe, but my experience of collective worship in both church and non church schools is that this is not the reality.

BackOnlyBriefly · 20/10/2014 22:59

BookABooSue you may want to read the thread again.

We say that making them worship one god and telling them that he is real is a bad thing, but learning about religion is a good thing.

Then the ones I referring say that to keep them from learning about religion would be a bad thing.