to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

I notice no one has responded to my question about the deaf community.

what does that question have to do with this discussion about a school child and racism? If you want an answer to your deaf community question, you could always post it as a new question.

What is the question about deaf people? I have tried scrolling back but cannot find it. I am intrigued...

Well, this thread has certainly strayed into other territory, as is the nature of debating. What does rape have to do with the OP? My question about the deaf community is at least as relevant IMO.

If people want to respond to the point you made about the deaf community, they will. You can't force them to though. They might not see the relevance. I certainly don't expect people to respond to the points about the similarities with rape apologists, if they do respond to it fine, if they don't fine.

I am really interested as to WHAT this question is about the deaf community (but gave up scrolling to find it). Please repeat the question.

SleepyGene:The post about 'witty comebacks' - which is actually about standing up for yourself and challenging bullying and name calling - is topped and tailed by emphatic advice to take it seriously and insist that the school takes it seriously.

My DC have been subjected to name calling based on race. They are from an ethnic minority with dark skin. Raising a child to be resilient and have confidence and self esteem involves equipping them not only to report racists or perpetrators of other discriminatory bullying behaviour but being equipped to stand up for themselves - feel empowered to challenge and talk back. Not be a victim. Not feel like a victim. It can't always work, is often not safe as a strategy...but in our case it has bloody well worked! Alongside superswift and effective meaningful intervention by adults.

It isn't up to a victim to put things right, it isn't the victim's responsibility, it isn't their fault, but racism and bullying and insults sap your self confidence. If it can be built to the point of making a challenge, that confidence grows and it is a deterrent to bullies. One of the saddest effects of bullying / name calling / racism is that it can begin a downward spiral that robs the target of any ability to stick up for themselves.

"It certainly is not racist taking the piss out of a Lancastrian accent,"

well why not? Within the terms of the Equality Act that is inconsistent. I can't see why an insult about an American accent is legally a crime and an insult about a Lancastrian one is not. It makes no sense.

Unless someone can explain it to me?

Unless I am mistaken, being from Lancaster is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

and i think it is disgusting that it is racism, it is a crime

what people are rightly objecting to is that those who do not agree with your all-in definition of racism are labelled apologists and on top of that are somehow tacitly approving of or endorsing some kind of rape. Bizarre.

If you are so interested in racial discrimination, why don't you google the basics of it in law?

i did, but it was curious what I found so I wanted to ask you. the document i found was

www.un-documents.net/a18r1904.htm

it mentions national origin precisely once, and everywhere else it mentions ethnic origin.

but the other interesting thing almondcakes is that it appears that country at the center of this controversy, the UK, also didn't want nationality in the definition of racial discrimination (according to you they opted out of that particular clause). I imagine that they left out religion (good, if you ask me) because there are a lot of countries that have a preferred religion (the notable exception being the US).

Elktheory's post at 20:29 is bang on IMO.

Religion is now a protected characteristic under the Equality Act so that comment is by the bye.

I don't get why bold sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. grrrr.

A quick Google search brings up the Equality Act, which clearly states that race includes national origins:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9

It is indeed. Schools won't be thinking as much about human rights as about the Equality Act, and in particular the public sector equality duty. The school may of course be completely supportive when the OP gets in touch - this may have been one teacher's failing. I hope we find out what happens, if the OP wants to come back in the midst of all this rather pointless debate!

Bold won't work if you leave a space after/before the asterix.

cheers and cheers

"Unless I am mistaken, being from Lancaster is not a protected characteristic under the Equality Act."

Well no, it isn't. But what is the qualitative difference between insulting someone about an American accent and a Lancastrian one? So why isn't 'being Lancastrian' (or probably 'speakers using different accents, dialects or vernacular language dependent on region or geographical area') a protected characteristic?

Of course taking the piss out of people for their accent is WRONG.

I am amazed class is not a protected characteristic, and taking the piss out of accents on a class basis is very common

See, I do accept that the law includes 'nationality' within racism of course I do, because it does, but the law is curious in it's inconsistencies sometimes.

Of course discrimination or insults based on nationality should not be acceptable. But nationality is one thing, and race is another.

OP: use the la though, to it's full effect, if it makes your school sit up and take it's responsibilities seriously.

Cadmium,

if you want to teach your kids witty comebacks to deal with racism, that's entirely up to you. In the context of this post, having read the opening and subsequent posts by the OP, I don't really think that was the type of advice she was after. She had already said she was frustrated and very annoyed by the "oh just ignore it" type of advice from the headmaster and was specifically asking if it was worth escalating things further with the school and taking it up with the head teacher.

I feel replies like "here's a witty comeback your child could use" is just another fob-off like the teacher saying "ignore it" and I feel that is not what the OP was looking for as she specifically mentioned escalating with the school. Not "can you please help me come up with other strategies that my daughter can use to get these racist bullies to shut up".

I read in her posts that she wanted to make the school stand up to its responsibilities and put the onus on them to stamp out the racist bullying. I didn't really see her ask at all for tips to help equip her daughter to deal with the racist bullies. I am not saying there isn't a place for that, of course there is. I am just saying it wasn't asked for in this thread, and the "what can I do make the school act on my daughter's behalf" type of advice WAS asked for.

*It certainly is not racist taking the piss out of a Lancastrian accent,"

well why not? Within the terms of the Equality Act that is inconsistent. I can't see why an insult about an American accent is legally a crime and an insult about a Lancastrian one is not. It makes no sense*

I am pretty sure it was not racist the way I was spoken to. It did not upset me, it just became tedious after a while as people kept saying it again and again.

As an aside, I lived in the States for three years (I am originally from Australia) and was shocked when I moved to the UK at the casual anti-American sentiment. I am sort of immune to it now but for a few years it seemed so parochial and narrow-minded.

headmaster? should read teacher

Ok, so hand on. Insulting an American accent isn't a CRIME but it is possibly a breach of the Equality Act (a civil offence).

Being from Lancaster will only be a protected characteristic if you can show it is a distinct ethnicity (which, on the case law, would be difficult)

I do not believe I am a distinct ethnicity. Mum was Scottish and dad is from Channel Islands, so I view myself as white British.

As an aside, I lived in the States for three years (I am originally from Australia) and was shocked when I moved to the UK at the casual anti-American sentiment. I am sort of immune to it now but for a few years it seemed so parochial and narrow-minded.

I would say the nationalities that come off worst with casual racism in the UK are Americans and Germans. Possibly the French too, but that is less venemous generally than the casual racism hurled daily at Germans and Americans.

People who will happily say

all Americans are XXXXXX

all Germans are XXXXXX

would never dream of saying

all Pakistanis are XXXXXX

all Chinese are XXXXXX

and yes it is very narrow minded and parochial

but it's just a laugh innit, like not meant bad lurve, don't get your knickers in a twist about it and calm down dearie. arghhhh it makes me sick and embarrasses me deeply.

I'm astonished at comments like this
So is being white a protected characteristic in employment law?

Of course it is. You can't sack a worker or pay less just for being white.

I'm astonished that some of you think being horrible to a person just because they are German or American or French isn't racism.

SleepyGene: The OP is free to ignore my suggestion, or to respond on her own behalf how she feels about any posts on the thread. Does she need you to speak for her?

I suggested she demand the school policies, precisely as a basis for escalating things with the school. I was the first person to suggest starting with the schools own policies while other posters were already started on the 'racism / not racism' debate. I was only drawn into that aspect by WooWooOwl's assertion that she can talk for how a black child might feel as opposed to how a (presumed) white child might feel, or the comparitive felt impact of different insults. None of us can make those assumptions about anyone else and their experience and feelings - but we do know that a whole range of behaviours is wrong.

On the other hand I lived in rural France for a year and although everyone was very polite to my face, they used to discuss the "stupid English" in my presence, assuming that I was some holiday maker who could not understand French. Now that DID piss me off.