to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

SleepyGene it seems to have waned a bit since Obama was elected but the number of so called comedians at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival making the laziest and cheapest of jokes about Americans was depressing.

Of course it is and should be illegal to discriminate in any way against someone just because they are white - my question was a genuine one, because I had been given an explanation of a 'protected characteristic' as being 'black, gay, pregnant, transgendered' etc.

Now I have read the equality act and lots of sections on the HRC website and realise that actually the word 'protected characteristic' isn't actually used in that way.

Is it possible to have a debate or conversation without leaping to conclusions about imagined subtexts?

all Americans are XXXXXX

such a statement would be abhorrent, bigoted and prejudiced. the question is whether it is racist.

@chaya i have been told that Americans are warmongers (the reference was the Iraq war). From a Brit. I think anti-americanism is not particular to Britain, but can be found all over.

It's racism! That's it! But seems it's ok because OPs daughter is American rather than Indian.

And calling this racism is not watering down the term. Utter nonsense. If the term is being watered down it's by people being ridiculously uptight and calling racism when someone simply describes someone physically by referring to their skin colour when that really is the best and quickest way to identify them.

So there's 12 nurses, one of whom is black and instead of saying the black nurse, people scoot around it saying, Oh the short one with dark hair standing near the desk! Just describe her as black!!! It doesn't mean you think she's a lesser person or a lesser nurse. You are just describing her using her physical characteristics. So if she was the only red head or the only one who was 6ft 3 then I'd use that to distinguish her. Frothing at the mouth trying to avoid referring to the colour of someone's skin is what is 'watering down ' the term, not using it appropriately.

I'm astonished that some of you think being horrible to a person just because they are German or American or French isn't racism.

astonished and saddened here, and angered a bit too. I thought we had came further as nation than this.

SleepyGene it seems to have waned a bit since Obama was elected but the number of so called comedians at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival making the laziest and cheapest of jokes about Americans was depressing.

well even Les Dawson went on (and on and on and on) with his mother in law jokes years after the nation stopped laughing. Hopefully Frankie Boyle and his ilk will go the same way. What really gets me with these so called comedians with their cheap anti-American jokes, one of their standard lines is "Americans have no sense of humour", talk about pot and kettle????

written are you really still asking "the question is whether it is racist."?

Oh, the argument that racism is something directed at white Americans neatly coincides with the idea that you should refer to someone as black if that's 'what they are': what a surprise.

If someone refers to the only BAME member of staff where I work as 'the black one' I think that person is probably a racist.

Nancy- who has said it is OK?

On a thread of over 200 posts 2 people have said it is 'teasing', everyone else has condemned it in the strongest of terms as bullying and unacceptable, with or without the racism definition.

Check your privilege froth

(but yes, claims that simple descriptions of racial characteristics equal racism are silly, though in truth I never actually hear anyone accuse anyone speaking in that way of racism, more often that people say they are afraid to use racial characteristics as a description in case they are assumed to be racist. Which is subtlety different, I think)

It is true that anti-Americanism is found the world over but I think it is particularly bad in the UK. I have lived in Australia, New Zealand, and parts of Asia and travelled the world over and it is in the UK that I find anti-American sentiment most. It comes up so casually in conversation. Usually accompanied by some implied superiority re: UK. That is my experience at least and accept that others may have experienced differently.

It is not racist to refer to a person as black...or at least I thought it was not.

P.S Though I would agree with TheOriginalSteamingNit that it can smell strongly of racism.

"It is not racist to refer to a person as black...or at least I thought it was not."

It isn't, unless the description is gratuitous and didn't need to be there, "that black woman who trod on my toe" v "that woman who trod on my toe" for example.

I was thinking of an example that happened to me a few weeks ago. I was interviewing job applicants at one of my client's premises. I gave the job to a lovely lady who is an African immigrant. The clients had seen all the applicants and asked me who I had given the job to, and I said the black lady. I said this as there were about 30 female applicants and if I had said the lady with the black hair, that could have referred to several of the applicants. She just happened to be the only applicant who was black. I was certainly not trying to be derogatory in any way.

I guess the point is: why couldn't you use her name rather than "the black lady"?

What would you have said if you'd given the job to one of the others?

Well if she stood on your toe and was right there I'd say that woman but if she'd stood on my toe and joined a group of 10 other women who all happened to be white and you asked me which one stood on my toe, I'd say the black one. It's only casual racism if you are using it superfluously.

Why was the colour of her skin what you mentioned rather than the details from her CV? "The radiologist from XYZ hospital"

Oh, and about the odd "deaf question". Hearing Impairment would be covered by the disability discrimination legislation. So the question as to whether the culture/custom of deafness creates it's own custom - and therefore it's own race is irrelevant.

The client did not know anyone's name so if I had said Jane, for example, that would not have meant anything to them.
If I had given the job to one of the others (all of whom were white) I would have said the lady with the blonde hair, wearing a green top, aged in her twenties (just an example). I would not have said the white lady as there were approximately 30 white ladies so that would not have narrowed it down.

The client had not read any of the CVs. I interviewed the applicants on the client's premises.

Of course I would use her name if I knew her name. I just refuse to align myself with the idea that it is racist to describe someone using the colour if their skin if that description is the most logical and appropriate ie it's the one clear thing which distinguishes the person from the others in the group. If she was the only blonde women I'd use that too. Just because a racist might also use it doesn't mean they own the bloody right to use it. It like the Union Jack flag. Just because the far right like to believe they have claimed it does not mean it belongs solely to them.

I guess the point is: why couldn't you use her name rather than "the black lady"?

my guess is because among 30 candidates, names are hard to remember, as are details from the CV, unless there was a very distinguishing part of some CV (the candidate who climbed Everest!).

Physical characteristics are easy to remember because you see them. If there were 29 normally heighted candidates and one 7 footer, I would probably say the tall one.

I guess the whole point of equality legislation is so that people aren't distinguished by the colour of their skin (but the content of their character etc etc)

Yes.

(sorry - my 'yes' was to NancyJones)