to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

Sorry, grammar etc all to pot there (and some sense)..small DCs distracting me.

Really your argument about the fear of diluting the phrase does not add up

not only doesn't it add up, it actually adds to the problem. As by minimising what the OPs child suffered, to being just bullying, instead of racist bullying is making it less than what it actually was. Excusing it somewhat by minimising it. This is exactly the kind of attitude that allows racism to flourish.

The tides are turning, and views like Written's are becoming fewer, but these things (like the rape debate and the language used around it) sadly don't change quickly.

the good news is a voice like yours (firstname, almond, etc) would have been a lone voice 30 yrs ago, and they're not now.

OK, I know I have been arguing with written, but recognizing that she or he is American, I do want to point out that the word "race" has heightened connotations and resonance in the US (and I grew up in the Deep South where that resonance is especially strong). With a history of institutional and legal racism that derives from the enslavement of black people, racism has a specific meaning that is now enshrined in our laws. That is not to say that other forms of discrimination are not just as bad, but our history means that there will always be a very specific and loaded meaning to the term racism.

there is a point to be made that (white) American's have never been repressed because of their race

No there isn't.

Not if you're descended from Irish slaves or Jewish people for a start.

What tosh.

What, in fact, racist tosh

What tosh. What, in fact, racist tosh

hear, hear!

So is being white a protected characteristic in employment law?

Cadium what a stupid question. Of course it is. Just like you cannot sack someone just because they are black or asian, similarly you cannot sack someone just because they are white.

You cannot commit a serious of hate crimes against someone because they are white. You cannot call someone a fucking white bitch or grafitti it on their car.

Your colour (regardless of what it is) is a part of race. As is.....well rtft

Cadmium apologies.

I'm not offended

I think it's disgusting that people are calling others 'racism apologists' (an MN buzz word) because they don't believe this fits the legal definition of racism.There is not one single person who said that this behaviour is acceptable, regardless of what you label this behaviour. The school should be addressing it under whatever named policy. It needs to be dealt with.

Good for you, OP, for taking this seriously for your DD. If all the teacher is doing is telling her to ignore it, and saying nothing to the children (or their parents) who are being nasty, it sounds as if she just wants to avoid any difficult conversations or confrontation. The "solution" she has provided is not acceptable, so it is perfectly reasonable to go to the head teacher or someone else at the school to find someone willing to handle this properly.

My family is like yours, dual nationality, British mum and American dad. I had both other children and adults (including teachers sadly) ridiculing me for being American, or my accent. Back then, I don't think bullying was taken nearly as seriously as it is now, and I was told things like "well, you have to expect that, being an American". I was always quite shy and no good at snappy responses, so I tried to cope with it by avoiding speaking in class, or in public with strangers around. That led to being told off for mumbling and being rude! It's a shame nobody stepped in and made it clear that it was not me that was the problem, but I did eventually figure that out myself. Your poor DD, it's a rotten situation for a kid to be in.

I think it's disgusting that people are calling others 'racism apologists' (an MN buzz word) because they don't believe this fits the legal definition of racism.

and i think it is disgusting that it is racism, it is a crime, yet you and many other apologists don't want me or others to call it by it's name. What else can I call you except apologists? If you have another word, that is synonymous with apologist which isn't an MN buzzword, I will happily use it to appease you. What I won't do is start calling people like you anything apart from what you are.... a part of the reason why racism is so hard to stamp out, because you and people like you condone it to a certain extent, and minimise where possible.

because they don't believe this fits the legal definition of racism.

it is irrelevant if any MN poster thinks this fits the legal definition of racism or not. What is relevant is the law. It is racism.

there is not one single person who said that this behaviour is acceptable

no? did you miss the comments up thread about it just being teasing? or the little "witty comebacks" that the OP was advised to teach her children. We shouldn't deal with racism in schools by teaching our kids smart one-liners to throw back at racist bully kids, we should stamp it out by ensuring schools are held accountable to the law and that they deal with the racist bullies.

if you wouldn't tell a rape victim to stop using the word rape as her attacker had no bite marks or bruises, then you really should understand that racism victims don't like being told they weren't victims of racism at all.

Sleepy You can think what you want, no skin off my nose. Like I can think you're using rape analogies to try and score cheap points.

I feel for the OP, people like you have derailed the thread with your own agenda. I've seen dogs who've dropped bones quicker than you've done in this thread.

Yeah... Remember when Rosa Parks refused to move on that bus to where all the other Catholics had to sit....? Remember when all those images of white Irish Americans' lynchings were available to buy on postcards? Remember when America had drinking fountains for Yids and Shiksas?

No, neither do I.

I don't believe for one minute that anyone here thinks that discrimination based on national origin or citizenship is acceptable. What I and others are suggesting is that some forms of discrimination and prejudice are not necessarily racist in nature. That doesn't make other types of discrimination and prejudice less (or more) wrong. Again, I'm not talking about the legal definition. In this case I think the UK legal definition should be more precise.

Race is a social construct and its definitions are fluid and evolving. But it doesn't follow that race is a meaningless category. It does mean something. To conflate everything under the category of race serves no one IMO (and it is a crime against the English language as well).

I notice no one has responded to my question about the deaf community.

crash lucid argument you have made in response there.

And Sleepy's agenda is? And what is yours?

I got this all the time at Cambridge being the only person in my year with a Northern accent. I found it quite irritating after a while being asked if there was trouble at mill. I once pointed out to someone that if I was to mock up a Chinese or Indian accent I would probably get sent down for it.
I am not sure if it is racism or not but it is certainly xenophobic and bullying. Perhaps you should make a formal complaint to the headteacher.

Well, was it racist when you were teased for your northern accent?

Well, it was Sleepy who is picking apart my posts. Should I not respond to her accusing me of something when she knows nowt about me? Anyway, no point in derailing any longer.

people like you have derailed the thread with your own agenda

and the people who continuously want to talk about the law is the US, while the OP and the racism are in the UK, are not derailing the thread?

I've seen dogs who've dropped bones quicker than you've done in this thread.

I hope I never "drop the bone under pressure" when it comes to racism and people like you who are apologists for it

I can think you're using rape analogies to try and score cheap points

Like you say, no skin off my nose if you do. But many here know that just 20 or 30 years ago that there were FAR more rape apologists than there are today. It just takes more time for those with the most entrenched views to wake up to the changing world.

I notice no one has responded to my question about the deaf community.

what does that question have to do with this discussion about a school child and racism? If you want an answer to your deaf community question, you could always post it as a new question.

Well, this thread has certainly strayed into other territory, as is the nature of debating. What does rape have to do with the OP? My question about the deaf community is at least as relevant IMO.

Jumping in here to say at it is potentially discrimination (in the form of harassment) under the Equality Act 2010, which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of nationality and ethnicity (the same category as race discrimination so, yes, discrimination on the grounds of nationality is a form of racism for the purpose of the law - see the Jewish school case on this). If the teachers aren't protecting your daughter from this then yes, the school - as public authority - is breaching the Equality Act. And potentially the Human Rights Act 1998.

It certainly is not racist taking the piss out of a Lancastrian accent, however when I got asked about "trouble at mill" and how my "whippet" was doing for the thousandth time it became somewhat irksome.
And just for the record I own a whippet cross, not a pure bred.

Well, it was Sleepy who is picking apart my posts. Should I not respond to her accusing me of something when she knows nowt about me? Anyway, no point in derailing any longer.

derail away sweetie, you're doing wonders for your cause (or should that read agenda?) with your well thought over arguments, put forth in such a lucid and calm manner

(yikes - just saw the posts immediately preceding mine. I would tend to say it is discrimination based on nationality not race but, for the purpose of the Equality Act they come under the same umbrella)