to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

It's teasing. I think. Children are teased for being short, tall, fat, thin, their name, their colour, their hair colour, their accent, their brother, their sister, their parent.

Personally, I think you'll escalate the problem and draw attention to it by marching in tomorrow armed with evidence.

I think her teacher is correct, and you need to teach your dd to laugh it off.

Clearly not a popular view with our fellow MNers.

What race is 'American'? What race is 'British'?

Maybe both kids are black, maybe both white, maybe one of each. But accents and nationality do not racism make.

Yes, do get the anti bullying policy, ladder of intervention, take it with you to go and see the head teacher and have them check if all the steps have been followed

Bullying someone because of their country of origin is totally racist, even if not in the strict sense the pedants want.

It all depends on what definition you are using. Very basically, American is not a race (because genetically white Americans are of European stock so they are the same as us). Various places treat it as the 'same' as race but it is not.

The definition I prefer is: racism is prejudice plus power. A white American is likely to face a world that pays them equally or more than their peers, the systems are all set up by and for people who don't discriminate against them (Courts, Police, schools). They will be less likely to go to jail, be in foster care, be pulled over and searched etc. etc. The systematic application of prejudice is the issue, not a one-off based on an idiot. White people as a class benefit from the sytem more than Black people as a class. Therefore if someone used that kind of language to a Black child, that would be racism, within a system of racism.

Now, having some Polish-ness myself, I understand that some nationalities are routinely subject to a very similar kind of issue.

Xenophobia is quite wrong, it's just not the same.

As always, I agree with Montegomongoose. It is cultural bullying and that is not acceptable. Teacher should be telling the other child off, not asking your child to put up.

Pretty sure a lot of British people aren't white Thefishewife. British is a nationality, not a race and many people of all colours and ethnic backgrounds share that nationality also.

(Also I'm English, Welsh and Irish, so what's my race by the same measure?)

Thank you all who have contributed so far as the one constant in your replies is that I need to take things up with school.

The whole what is race issue is an interesting (and I think useful) debate to have, but essentially you have confirmed what I thought: that the child in question is crossing the line and behaving in a way he should not.

Americans are not white like the British
Last time I checked lots of British weren't white either.

accents and nationality do not racism make.
So when the Polish girls at a local school were bullied and attacked because of their Polishness this wasn't racist?
Of course it was and it was rightfully prosecuted as a race hate crime.

It is is racism
In the UK: *It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:

age
being or becoming a transsexual person
being married or in a civil partnership
being pregnant or having a child
disability
race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
religion, belief or lack of religion/belief
sex
sexual orientation*

From www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/types-of-discrimination

FFS all this it is just bullying crap. It is illegal to discriminate "against race including colour, nationality, ethnic or *national origin.

Imagine: "She cannot have the job because she was American". She did not get the promotion because she had duel US/UK nationality.

Just because it is not a different colour FFS

Sorry, am angry about the astonishing response.

(Also I'm English, Welsh and Irish, so what's my race by the same measure?) If you are white European, probably Caucasian. HTH.

Imagine: "She cannot have the job because she was American".

Imagine: "She cannot have the job because she was red-haired". Just as wrong, just as stupid. Not racism.

MrsTerryPratchett, yes, I appreciate the power element to racism, but I think in a looser sense, it's still wrong to make anyone feel uncomfortable of ashamed of who they are and who their family is etc. I guess it depends on how tight the definition you use is, and there seems to be no real consensus.

Racism is NOT JUST ABOUT BEING A "INSERT A RANDOM NON-WHITE COLOUR" RACE. It is about colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin.

Look at the school website and see if you can find the appropriate policies to prepare your visit.

It is of course racism. This should be expressly mentioned In the anti bullying policy,

I agree, the red-haired thing not racist - stupid an appalling but tbh you can change your hair colour. You may lose your hair. Your hair could be hidden by a hat.

You cannot change you colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin. That is the whole point. It is about something you cannot change. Where you came from....your parents/nationality/colour/etc etc create your "race". You are born in "x"/ your parents are from X & Y. You are therefore nationality/race wise x or mixed x/y. You cannot change this. It has happened.

Sexism isn't racism and I would still go to the barricades to prevent it. Don't mistake wanting proper definitions for thinking what is happening to your child is right. It isn't.

Racism is dreadful. Applying the term more widely worries me. I also get really annoyed when people want the Diet Coke adverts to mean that all men suffer sexism as a class like women do.

I bet it doesn't say in there that the victim should 'ignore' the bully. Ask the teacher where it says that in the anti bullying policy.

I beg to differ. My Polish heritage is only obvious to people who ask or are told. I 'look Polish' but only Polish people know that!

Of course sexism isn't racism . It is sexism.

Applying the term correctly is important. Otherwise casual racism (about nationality/ethic origin for example) just gets ignore. It is not just colour.

You don't need to debate the definition of racism with the school, just stick to the legal one under the Equality Act which clearly includes nationality. While it is beneficial to teach your dd coping strategies, smart come-backs etc that is not how the school should deal with it - there is no way it is acceptable for a teacher to ignore incidents of racism, homophobia etc.

If calling a Spaniard "a filthy dago" or an Italian "a stinking wop" is racist language then calling someone "a thick Yank" is also racist language.

Really don't get your point about being "visibly" Polish MrsTerryPratchett
If someone kicks the shit out of you simply because you are Polish then it is a racist attack.

But MrsTerryPratchett what would you do, how would you feel, if you were to suffer discrimination by people who did know your Polish Heritage?

That you couldn't help on a school trip, because you had a Polish background. That you could not help with school reading, because of your Polish Heritage? That you wanted a promotion - but you couldn't be considered - because the bad publicity around promoting someone with not 100% pure English background - and certainly not with a Polish background.

At which point would you begin to think - hang on - that is not just bullying - that is discrimination on the grounds of race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin ?

I wouldn't define it as racism but it is certainly unacceptable. I would have a word with the teacher and if nothing changes, I would take it further up the chain.

Unfortunately, quite a few people in the UK seem to think it is fine to insult Americans. It happens a lot on MN: a ridiculous sense of superiority and a belief that everything American is somehow inferior and worthy of ridicule. How very pathetic people must be if they feel the need to look down on an entire nation.

But of course, the situation in the OP is quite different to the sad attitudes one encounters on a website. The school should absolutely address the matter. Good luck, OP.

"Imagine: "She cannot have the job because she was American". She did not get the promotion because she had duel US/UK nationality."

That would be wrong, wrong, and very very wrong! And would be discrimination based on prejudice, and xenophobic.

Likewise bullying of Polish children is shocking and horrible, is hateful, discriminatory and based on prejudice. But race?