to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

No it isn't but you hating tesco would be colouring the fact that it is technically theft. Whether you feel one degree of racism is more abhorrent than another based on your view of the world is one thing. Being able to give advice to the op based on what us technically correct is another. Her daughter is a victim of racial bullying. End of!

But Bulbasaur is just arguing that it's not racism because Americans are not a race, she's arguing that it's not racism because white Americans are not a historically persecuted group of people.

Nancy, I really don't care what she is basing her arguments on, she is wrong. She doesn't get to decide what constitutes racism. For all I know she is a Robin Hood fan and doesn't feel breaking into people's homes and stealing from them is theft, as long as those stolen from earn 6 figure salaries. Luckily though the law does define that as theft, and luckily the law classes cases like the OPs child as racism.

You can demand schools take a whole load of things seriously, but it doesn't mean they will.

But legally they have to take this seriously and record it as a racist incident, which gives the OP a greater chance of getting the school to act.

what's this new thing going on in this thread

ok here is my opinion, this is right. THE END

followed by

no, my opinion is more valid. END OF

is this some new passive aggressive manner of saying something like "will you all just shut the fuck up and let me have the last word"

Slerpygene, I agree. It's racism. End of story. I don't believe in degrees of racism. As I said last night, racists are stupid as their argument is completely ridiculous. Xenophobes are more ignorant than stupid I guess but their argument is stupid nonetheless. I think morally and importantly, legally, it doesn't matter where the stupidity is directed, it's all the same nonsense.

I believe there are degrees of institutionalised racism and specific strands like white supremacism. I think we need policies in place to deal with them.

But none of that changes the situation or rights of the child in question.

Well op I think it is racism. Just like the no blacks or Irish signs in the 50's. Or calling Irish thick. Or the pilot is Irish. Thats a worry. Incidently I was born in England but of Irish parentage and I consider my etchic group to be white Irish.

ethnic

In law racism includes nationality.

In the OED it does not:

noun:
1Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics: ‘people of all races, colours, and creeds

1.1 [mass noun] The fact or condition of belonging to a racial division or group; the qualities or characteristics associated with this.

1.2A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group: ‘we Scots were a bloodthirsty race then’
More example sentences‘’

1.3A group or set of people or things with a common feature or features:

This is the basis of much to-ing and fro-ing on this thread.

However, the law is what should underpin the policies of the OP's school, and hopefully the thread has given the OP more grist to her mill, and she has said she will take the legal definition into the school.

And all power to her elbow.

Scots were a nationality for most of their history Cadmium, and many of them are in favour of civic nationalism!

And the 'other examples' you refer to in the OED were the British and Brazilian races!

Please look at the definition of racism on the first page of the thread. She is being persecuted for a characteristic to do with where her parents come from. Whether or not it falls into to OED definition is missing the point.

It also doesn't matter really what label is put on this - the poor girl is being bullied. The school should do something about it other than tell her to ignore it. The scool are trying to not have to deal with it - getting the victim to change is close to victim blaming. Yes she should ignore it as it is ignorant bull shit. But equally the school should be working hard to make sure there is nothing for her to ignore.

So are we now saying the Scots are a race but the Americans aren't?

DH is Scottish, did law at Oxford and works for an American investment bank. He has just said there's a huge amount of casual racism in the London branch against the Americans but also lots in the Edinburgh office against the English, especially the young admin girls with London accents. He hates anything like that and yes, he calls it racism but unlike me, he does think there's a fundamental difference in that he thinks that 'type' of racism is based on ignorance rather than hatred.

But racism is defined by the impact, not the intentions of the perpetrator.

In that example scots are talked of as a race by dint of ethnicity: cultural, linguistic etc - and I guess can therefore be described thus whether there is a national boundary or not.

Many nations have more than one ethnic group within their borders, many ethnic groups spread beyond national borders.

But we've been here before.

The point is that is that for very many people, in the UK, racism is focussed on race and is based in the ethnic definition, closer to the OED definition, than the way discrimination which includes national is included in racism in the Equalities act.

That's all!

It's much easier in the equalities act version: there are no fuzzy borders around when one ethnic group becomes distinct from another etc etc etc.

For fuck's sake.

I'm Jamaican.

I've got blood from black AND white slaves.

My family include black people who've never left the Caribbean and white European (very poor) aristos, Indians and all sorts in between.

I'd love some of you lot recently on this thread to come round to our place and start off on your 'black man says, white man says' and 'racist, end of,' patronising drivel.

Seriously? Do some travelling, meet lots of people and stop trying to reduce everything to skin colour and some bollocks 'academic' definition of racism that bears bugger all resemblance to real life and real people.

A little girl is being made unhappy because her classmates are giving her a hard time because she's American.

And that is just plain wrong.

So there is no American culture? No similarity of language? No geographical links? No American ideology? No common history?

But there is a Scottish one?

But maybe in 500 years - you know when the American culture is a bit older - then will they be considered a race? Because the All American cliches will have been around long enough?

And to be honest - even if, as you say in the UK, racism is focussed on race and is based in the ethnic definition, closer to the OED definition (which I hope is not true) then they are wrong. Legally. Morally.

MyFirstName , I agree totally with everything you have just posted.

Faffing around saying it's not racism when the child is clearly being bullied because of her heritage is complicating a simple clear cut scenario IMO.

A little girl is being made unhappy because her classmates are giving her a hard time because she's American

Couldn't agree more!

This thread was to ask the question should OP speak to the headteacher, not is what the exact definition of racism is in the OED.

Irrespective of whether or not it is racism, it is nasty bullying, so it should be reported.

"And to be honest - even if, as you say in the UK, racism is focussed on race and is based in the ethnic definition, closer to the OED definition (which I hope is not true) then they are wrong."

The first slew of posts on this thread, following the OP, are saying, 'it's not racism'. Thankfully most are also emphatically saying that it is very wrong, is nasty bullying and needs to be taken seriously, but there is a long list of posters on this thread who have said something along the lines of 'it isn't racism because 'American' isn't a race'. It's a very common view of what racism is in the UK!

Only 2 weeks ago I was speaking to someone who called a black individual a darkie. I pulled him over his use of the term and he said I am too politically correct.

Cadmium, do you seriously think everyone in Scotland is solely a Scot? That there are no people within those National borders whose ethnicity is Scottish by nationality and Asian by descent, for example? You seem to really struggle if you can't slot people into little race boxes.