to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

Sleepy American is not a race. It doesn't negate the fact that her children are being bullied which is horrible but a country cannot be a singular race.

Did I say America was a race? Did anyone say that?

answer: NO

what is being said is....it IS racism

that is not just an opinion, that is the law

you do get the fact that you can't define the law?

what part of "her child is suffering not just bullying but racist bullying, i.e racism" do you not get ?

why do you try to minimise racist bullying (racism) to JUST bullying ?

would you be ok with saying Linda on Eastenders didn't get raped, she was just assaulted?

because this is EXACTLY what you are doing when you continue to play down racism by calling it just bullying

there used to be signs in London guest houses saying "No Irish Allowed". I guess that wasn't racism either?

It doesn't matter if Americans are not a race, it is still prejudice to be anti-American. Muslims are also not a race and I am sure most people would agree that being anti-Muslim is still prejudicial even if it is not "racist".

Yes - it's racism. From a UK legal perspective.

Curiously, I've often wondered why casual racist comments against Americans is seen as more acceptable than racism against other groups.

I confess to having indulged in casual racism against Americans in the past - really aimed at aspects of US politics, and some US tourists - but now appreciate that this was wrong and no longer doing it

race

1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2. a population so related.
3. Anthropology.

(no longer in technical use) any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

1. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock:

the Slavic race.

1. *any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.:

the Dutch race.*

America is a race. Saying nasty things based on someone's race is racism.

America is not a colour. Racism is not just colour.

Bold fail any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.:the Dutch race.

Replace Dutch with American. Race.

Racism

What do people think race is FFS? The colour of someone's skin?

What do people think race is FFS? The colour of someone's skin?

reading this thread then yes, that's what the apologists must think. I wonder if they have any idea how offensive they are being? To mean it really is no different from those who say wives can't be raped, or absence of bruises = no rape, or drunk women = no rape.

to me, not mean

I agree Sleepy. And not as bad a rape because it was not-violent.

I have a horrible feeling that people who think this is not racism may also think that the Disability Discrimination Act only applies to people in wheelchairs. Sexism is only referring to builder whistles and "get yer tits out love" taunts.

I think I am just incredible lucky not to have come across such narrow-mindedness before. The thinking that is has to be extreme, stereotypical racism for it to be abhorent. BNP no. Anything else can get a bit blurry. Or maybe I am just incredibly naive. I now am even more worried about the insidious creep of that toad Farage. He spins this kind of crap too doesn't he? We are not racist. We don't mention colour.

Aridane Well, why do we still sneer and laugh at Germans who spread large towels on sunbeds while on holiday? Does that cont as racism because we never criticise Swedes or French or anyone else for doing it?

Did I say America was a race? Did anyone say that?

MyFirstName did, albeit after you said the above.

There are no apologists here. What's happened to the child has been universally condemned here, and yes it looks like the right part of UK law that applies is the anti racism legislation.

However, the reason why people are objecting to the term racism is that Americans do not form a race. I am American (living in the UK) though not a white American. I would never claim my race is American; that's my nationality.

if you look up race, it isn't really well defined. No one is saying it is solely color, but I would probably say at least race can't be changed. Thus, nationality and race are not synonymous.

5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

The problem with this categorization of race is that many groups that are obviously not races fit this. American gays share a common history, language and cultural traits, as do religious groups. does that make them a race?

Bullying yes, racism - yes. But I think there is a point to be made that (white) American's have never been repressed because of their race. They don't generally face discrimination or have been persecuted simply because of their nationality. I would think you are considered very lucky if you are American I guess - it's something that will get you on in life rather than hold you back.

It's wrong what is happening but the fact your DD is half American is unlikely to ever hinder her progress in life, which is more than can be said if she were - for instance - a Muslim in the UK or an Eastern European so the racism element in my opinion is not really valid.

I would say you should be less concerned with the racist element but more about the fact there is obviously bullying going on and focus on stopping that instead.

I am American. I get singled out quite often to hear about how the world hates America.

I never refuse to accept it. If I can name 2 things the offender in question is wearing/doing/using that is/are American while they are being offensive I point them out and walk away. I have to defend my American-ness a whole lot and in the last 8 years I've become better at it.

For example, last week while I was at out shopping and some random guy started telling me how much he detested America...He was wearing a Tom Ford cologne (because I could smell it from a mile away), A Ralph Lauren polo shirt, had an Iphone to fidget with, wearing converse shoes, levi jeans ...

And all the while, I bet he has fantasized about Kim K at least once. For some, I think it's an inferiority thing. For others, they may just not know enough about America and jump on some stupid band wagon. I love America and always will...I will only believe that people actually hate the country/nation when Ipads are being sold for 50p trips to Disney aren't considered a luxury.

I mean I always refuse to accept it.

Some have commented that nationality is something that can be changed. That is true; but one's national origin can't be. That is the term that most anti-discrimination laws in the US use, with race as a separate category in the same laws. It appears that in the UK this distinction is not made, and that national origin is included in the legal definition of racism.

The OP's case with the school is stronger because of these laws; so far the school does not appear to be taking the matter seriously; that is one of the reasons that laws like these exist, to make people and institutions take racist and xenophobic actions seriously.

There are no apologists here.

people refusing to call it racism (or just bullying) are apologists, and plenty have said just that

What's happened to the child has been universally condemned here

and at the same time minimised by refusing to call it what is, i.e racism
you cant universally condemn something AND minimise at the same time. That is a contradiction in terms.

to tell a rape victim that while her ordeal was bad and not to be condoned, but it wasn't real rape as she didn't scream, kick and bite IS an apologist statement, and calling it just "assault" is minimising rape, whether or not you condemn the action.

Crimes have a name for a reason. We don't minimise rape by calling it assault, we don't minimise theft by calling it borrowing, and we shouldn't minimise racism by calling it bullying.

if you look up race, it isn't really well defined. No one is saying it is solely color, but I would probably say at least race can't be changed. Thus, nationality and race are not synonymous

this discussion was never "could people please tell me their personal definitions of the word race" it was "is my child suffering racism at school" and the answer to that is an unequivocal yes. I am not interested in any one person's definition of race, I am interested in calling out racism when it happens, and in pointing out the apologist behaviour and language that allows it to flourish.

Bullying not racism as others had said. Report to ht

so the racism element in my opinion is not really valid

that just makes me laugh. Your opinion that racism is not really valid here, should that supersede the law? Surely what is really valid is the law and not your opinion???

I would say you should be less concerned with the racist element but more about the fact there is obviously bullying going on and focus on stopping that instead

Yes and by all means carry on being an apologist for racism by telling the OP to be more concerned about the bullying aspect than the racism aspect, while you totally ignore the fact that if it wasn't for racism the child wouldn't be getting bullied.

It must be far nicer for the racist bullies in schools to get off nice and lightly with only the bully title.

I am not interested in any one person's definition of race,

it's not one person; you are clearly at odd's with a lot of people here. UK legislation is on your side, but, apparently from above, american legislation is not, and neither are half the people on here. So two things count here. For the OP, it's the UK law. For this discussion, well it's the people in this discussion and how they are justifying whether or not this is racism.

I am interested in calling out racism when it happens,

it sounds to me your are interested in only your definition.

and no one is minimizing what happened to the child. The child clearly faces discrimination, and that is bad. But it can still be bad and not be racist, all at the same time.

out of curiosity, given that you admit american is not a race, why would you call it racism? Surely, if racism is in play, there is a race at the center if it, no?

written please then elucidate what, in your definition, is racism?

I confess to having indulged in casual racism against Americans in the past - really aimed at aspects of US politics, and some US tourists - but now appreciate that this was wrong and no longer doing it

This is precisely why labeling everything under the sun as racist is dangerous. You, as everyone else, should feel entirely free and justified in criticizing american politics or policies. That's a good thing. That is not racist, and using that word simply shuts down the discussion or debate. It is an emotive word often used precisely for that purpose.

UK legislation is on your side, but, apparently from above, american legislation is not

No. US anti-discrimination laws usually say, for example, "race, color, religion, sex, or national origin." In these laws, they are equivalent categories in terms of the protected classes.

what, in your definition, is racism

inferring that some particular person of a certain race (whatever that means, but it's distinct from nationality) has a certain quality because it is perceived that many people of that race share that quality. Almost always in a negative way, but it doesn't have to be.

No. US anti-discrimination laws usually say, for example, "race, color, religion, sex, or national origin." In these laws, they are equivalent categories in terms of the protected classes.

why is discrimination being confused with racism? If that is what US anti-discrimination law says, then it clearly deems race and national origin separately.

writtenguaranteeThis being a forum predominantly (but not exclusively) populated by Brits, and reading that the OPs child is in the UK, then the only correct answer to the original question is "yes this is racism".

US law is neither here nor there in this question.
Neither is Kenyan law, Singaporean law or the law in Outer Mongolia. They are irrelevant to a question pertaining to a child in the UK.

And it IS minimising what happened to the child by calling it "just discrimination" or "just bullying".

and I call it racism in the same way I call the signs that used to hang up in London guest houses saying "No Irish Allowed Here" racist too. I call it racism because it IS racism.

If this had been a question on an American/Israeli/Omani/Chinese forum, about an American/Iraeli/Omani/Chinese child then my reply would have been different. But it wasn't, it was a question pertaining to the UK.

In much the the same way rape is defined differently in different countries. Rape is rape in the UK irrespective to the relationship between victim and rapist, a husband can rape his wife, but that is not the same world over. Am I now supposed to start telling UK rape victims that they weren't really raped just because the law is different in Oman or Kenya or Bolivia, just in case someone from those countries are posting?

US law is neither here nor there in this question.

I was actually trying to make the point that there are strong parallels in US law, but that the categories are just set out differently. It was in response to what several people said about nationality being something that you can change (and the implication that this made it less deserving of protection than other categories) and that national origin is not something that you can change.