to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

I disagree that it will stop when the children are at secondary school. Adults still spend plenty of time telling other American adults they are stupid. I've never understood why it's ok to insult Americans for being American but it happens all the time :-(

My point is that calling everything remotely related to race, culture, nationality, area, origin racism to give it power and importance might just serve to take power and importance away from the term. I'm not saying that other things (xenophobia, sexism, hence why I mentioned it) aren't also a huge issue. They are, as is bullying.

In your example, you use the example not offering someone a job because of their being American. The reason this is important is that people routinely are refused jobs, housing, justice, existence because of their race. I'm not sure Americans face that systematic issue. It's possible than an individual could feel that way about Americans (there's a lot of it on here) but it's not the same as a systemic all-encompassing prejudice.

If people did discriminate against me because of my Polish heritage, that would contravene the Human Rights Act where I live (not the UK) and I would indeed be protected by Law (we hope). That doesn't make Polish a race and it doesn't mean that a group that routinely faces no systemic issues the same as those that do. Polish people do face that in the UK and other places unfortunately.

Whatever the definition, I agree that it is ignorance and bullying at the least. I was on the receiving end of similar when I was that age because of my DM's disability, she was called thick and by default therefore so was I. It is upsetting and unnecessary. Would you feel easier speaking to the parents of the boy involved?

Waves at Mrs TP.
British by birth, polish by heritage. I'd say I was Slavic, not Caucasian as it is a more accurate definition of my ethnic origin.

"Americans are not white like the British they come in all colours unless Obama is a imposter"

Am I right on thinking that this meant to read "Americans are not white. Like the British they come in all colours unless Obama is a imposter" rather than "Americans are not white like the British. They come in all colours unless Obama is a imposter"

Posters have rather jumped on the second interpretation!

Slavic eh? I'm stealing that.

Cadmium, I agree, it is definitely the former. However it really needs some punctuation.

Yes it is racism and you need to make a fuss about it. Can't believe the stupid people queuing up to tell you that this is not racism.

Sore point for me as a family member is American and the amount of horrible abuse he took when he lived over here was appalling. All due to his nationality. It is ok to abuse Americans it seems and to talk about them as being 'thick' and lacking in culture. Ironic now I think back to the types who were happily abusing my hugely clever relative - they were not the brightest specimens of humanity.

It quite clearly is racism, and the school is required to log every racist incident and take action to address them. Tell them you expect them to log formally every racist incident you have reported to them. The policy document you need is the school's equality policy - check through it and ask the school why they aren't following it. If you don't get satisfactory answers, make a formal complaint using the school's complaints policy.

And what I am trying to say is that by dismissing it as something not worthy the label it has defined by law then there is a risk it becomes too acceptable.

I cannot see that it is taking power away from the term racism to re-inforce that racsism is not just about colour.

You were correct with your second comment "America is not a race." However I still feel vehemently (white, anglo-saxon if it is if any interest or relevance) that to dismiss it as "not racist" is abhorrent.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/private-and-public-sector-guidance/guidance-all/protected-characteristics This refers to the protected characteristic of Race. group of people defined by their race, colour, and nationality (including citizenship) ethnic or national origins.

If these characteristic whole - under the umbrella or race (and likewise racisim)_ are not re-inforced then you get the "I am not racist but" comments. "I am not racist but I fucking hate all these xyz people taking all our jobs./school places/fill in UKIP-based utter bollocks".

Racist, xenophobic knobs often know "racism" is abhorent. That being a blach-hating signed up member of the BNP isn't really very socially acceptable. By pretending shit like happening to the OP's daughter "is not as bad as racism" is beyond my comprehension to be honest. It allows people to think that the top five comments are "OK"

I do not like Jane, because she is Spanish
I do not like Jane because she is black.
I do not like Jane because she is Catholic.
I do not like Jane because she is Eastern European.
I do not like Jane because she is Slavic

But they probably shouldn't say

I do not like Jane because she is a "insert stereotypical racist comment".

All of these are racist. Some more headline-grabbingly so. But all need challenging. And re-educating. Calling them a different name would just, in my opinion make them more acceptable. And that is not acceptable. Especially in school! I can hate people for where they were born/parents nationality as long as it not because they have a different colour skin?

I am only being "nationalitist" - so it is OK?

And to be honest I did not think I felt this strongly. But I do. As a (white, anglo-saxon) parent. School Governor. Human being.

Sorry OP for de-railing.

just because the UK govt defines nationality to be part of race doesn't make it so.

you can't change your race as it is part of your biology. But you can change your nationality.

whether or not Poles count as a race I don't know, but race and nationality are definitely distinct.

that being said, what's happening to your kid is unacceptable. I think it should be treated like racism. I think, unfortunately, it is more acceptable to be "racist" against Americans than other people.

'stupid', fizzymittens?

You are calling MNers engaged in a discussion 'stupid' because you do not agree with them?

NB NO-ONE thinks that what is going on is OK.

Why do you feel so strongly that it must be defined as racism?

"By pretending shit like happening to the OP's daughter "is not as bad as racism" is beyond my comprehension "

Who has said 'it isn't as bad'?

Or implied that what is going on is remotely OK?

fizzymittens stupid? Great debating skill you have there

If the UK Govt defines is as part of race. Then legally it is racism.

Fuck me. I give up.

I said that it was a sore point with me. Keep your knickers on Cadmium.

MyFirstName has said it all really.

If the UK Govt defines is as part of race. Then legally it is racism. Yes, does that mean we all have to stop discussing what racism is, what it means, how it is defined? Surely we write the law, not the other way around...

We could have a thread where we debated the definitions chosen to be part of our equality legislation here in the UK. Or we could address the OP, who wonders what to do with the school regarding their tolerance for remarks made to her dd, and for whom it is helpful to know which laws the school needs to be sticking to.

Who has said it isn't as bad?- various people - "It is teasing" "It is nasty but not racism". It is just bullying - give her e few witty comebacks"

This would not be said if the OP had said "My DD is being taunted for having dark skin."

Ok point taken.
Replace white with first world and wealthy (also wrong, there is terrible poverty in parts of the states).

What is wrong is not considering it racist because we see them as similar to us and fair game.

Which is perhaps, ok in a comedy sketch or a cartoon, like taking the Micky out the French.

That doesn't make it right to mimic an individuals accent or call them dumb because of the country of their birth.

An individual child shouldn't have to cope with our two nations love/hate relationship.

To not call it racist to name call an a American or an Australian (who might be seen in a similar light, but to call some on racist for the same treatment of a Lithuania is in
It's self racist.

It suggests some countries are better than others and their people don't need the same protection.

MyFirstNane: ONE person has said it is teasing. Many people have said it is bullying. Not 'just bullying' . I said encourage her to stand up for herself, and I said it after advising the OP to get the school to take it very seriously. My DC are black. I encourage them to stand up for themselves whatever the circumstance.

You are not reflecting the thread accurately.

Whereas all people are trying to do is be accurate.

I do not like Jane, because she is Spanish
I do not like Jane because she is black.
I do not like Jane because she is Catholic.
I do not like Jane because she is Eastern European.
I do not like Jane because she is Slavic

they are not remotely the same. some of those are outright choices (being Catholic) to somewhat chosen (being Spanish) to immutable (black, or if Slavic is also a race).

the problem with blurring the lines is that you can be called a racist for disparaging Catholicism.

what to do with the school regarding their tolerance for remarks made to her dd, and for whom it is helpful to know which laws the school needs to be sticking to.

i did. i said it should be treated like racism because I don't think the school needs to make the distinction. the OP can march in their with UK law if need be

To be accurate 2 posters have referred to teasing or "being teased for their national origin".

To be accurate, dismissing it as "Not racist" goes against the legal definition of racial discrimination. Aka racism. To be accurate.

But I am stepping away from this thread now. Because it appears, as Elephant says "What is wrong is not considering it racist because we see them as similar to us and fair game."

I do find it abhorent, and shocking that so many people cannot see this is racism.