to this is not ok (racism related)?

[Warriorqueen69]

Name changed. I'll keep it brief and this is really more a WWYD than an AIBU, but I guess they overlap. DH is American. We live in the UK. Our two DCs have always grown up understanding that they are both British and American. We keep reasonably good links with our huge family over there, celebrate American holidays and they pick up American vocabulary and phrases from their father. All in all, both DCs consider themselves to be both. They have dual nationality, so this is the reality of the situation.

Throughout primary school, my older DD has had occasional anti-American remarks made to her by some of the other kids (e.g "I hate Americans" or "Americans are stupid"), but school never seem to do anything about it when I bring it up. Now, a boy in her class has taken to regularly mocking her, putting on a fake American accent, and saying, "Hi, my name's XXX. I'm American and I'm stupid and dumb." Again, her teacher has told her to just ignore it, but both she and my DH are pretty annoyed, as am I.

Why do some people think it's ok to make racist remarks against Americans? I don't think it's ok, not one tiny bit. But I'm not sure whether it's worth taking things further with the school by speaking to the headteacher. WWYD please?

I think it is also far too easy to dismiss outright bullying as "teasing". Far too many bullies have got away with that excuse.

But no one considers the OP. 'fair game'.

This thread is very different from the many about Islam and Muslims where the first suggestion of an accusation of racism is met with 'constructive criticism / being downright dismissive of Muslims, Islam isn't a race' earns many posts of agreement and usually do dissent. Quite rightly.

'I don't like Americans' - this could be due to anything. You don't like the accent, don't like the culture, the words/slang they use (because it's different to the UK), the laws of America.

It makes you stupid to generalise so, and ignorant, and offensive.

'I don't like black people' - that pretty much says it all. You don't like black people. Because they're black. Which is racist.

The two are not the same. You could argue that they're equally offensive, or that one is more offensive than the other, based on your views.

But they are not the same.

What's the scientific definition of race, JOOI ?

If op was from Pakistan or, Africa would that be different! I bet you all woukd say that it was racist, but because op is from America it is nit!

My last point. Race is not just colour.

I am not going to bother to show you the evidence. Google it. Wiki it. Look at the CPS website. Use a dictionary.

Racism is not just about colour. Or ethic minorities.
As above - google it. Look at the Race Relations Act. Equal Opportunities commission (as was). The CPS (think they may know what constitutes a racist act).

If op was from Pakistan or, Africa would that be different! I bet you all woukd say that it was racist, but because op is from America it is nit!

to take the possibly more extreme examples of China or Japan, in those cases yes nationality and race are more easily conflated because those places are more ethnically homogeneous.

But with children the lines are blurred, a Catholic child doesn't choose to identify as Catholic that choice is made for them.

Even as adults some people have to make tremendous sacrifices to family relations to change their religious affiliation.

It is just the same as making fun of an African or Chinese child, and should be treated as seriously as it would be treated for any other country.

Is there a scientific definition of race? Or is it, like nationality and identity even, an artificial construct? Why shouldn't we be all the same under our skin and merely identify as humans? Do these tribalistic categories really help us any?
Just sayin'.

In which case, various PPs, the next time there's a thread about the racists who vote UKIP, I'll be amused to see all those racism deniers above piling in saying "how could it possibly be racist?"

"They are Polish immigrannts, and our objection to 'them' coming to the UK is merely bulling and teasing."

Hell will freeze over

I get frustrated on MN by certain factions who shriek 'racism' at every turn, with blind knee-jerking monotony.

And yet here we have a little girl being picked on be aide of her ethnicity (and we still do not know and it does not matter, what colour her skin is) and posters are arguing it's not racism.

I despair at the anti-American sentiment I find here.

for you and your DD, OP.

Exactly monte, they are saying nasty things about this girls Country, they are mocking her accent, that is racial bullying. replace op post with African or Chinese and Mumsnet would be up in arms. But because op dd is American it's ok, they are game .

The same goes for people mocking Irish, woukd similarly be racist if a kid was mocking an Irish child's accent, and making derogatory remarks about their country,

I wouldn't define it as racism but it is certainly unacceptable

With respect, it is not about how we define racism. There is a legal definition of racism, this fits that legal definition. The school has a statutory duty to tackle racism as part of its broader equality duties.

So you are not just addressing 'bullying' you are tackling 'racist bullying' and the school must be made aware of its statutory responsibilities to tackle this as an issue as well as in relation to your child.

"But because op dd is American it's ok, they are game"

Monty and Aero: NOBODY thinks this little girl is 'game'.

Nobody thinks it is OK.

Though I do agree with you about the general anti-American threads on MN. It is OK to have a critique or dislike of certain things American (popular culture, foreign policy or whatever) but absolutely not OK to denigrate American people, individually or in a generalist collective way.

But that isn't what is going on on this thread.

No-one thinks it is OK to mock her accent or call Americans 'dumb'.

Writtenguarantee it should be treated like racism because it is racism.
I've been on threads here were a lot of hurt was caused as MMHQ did not initially accept that attacks on national groups (Scottish in that case) were racist and should be deleted. They changed their minds once fully aware of legal position, unlike many on this thread!

I was at a playground with my DS yesterday and he went to go into a playhouse. Two children who had heard us speaking English said (in Dutch), 'No English in here, only Dutch' (we live in the Netherlands). Was that racist? It was certainly anti-English. The children were both black Dutch, I wondered to what extent they were mimicking racism they had been subject to. It's quite complex, but I think discrimination on the grounds of nationality or skin colour both fit the definition of racism.

half German family here too!!
The comments DH has has, even from so called friends who think they are being funny. When DS was born he apparently looked like Hitler - hilarious!!
Although Americans aren't strictly a race I think this is bullying and should be stopped.
Even the media thinks it's fine to make " racist" or xenophobic remarks against other nations who are predominately white but it's not

As other people have said it IS racism. Xenophobia is a specific form of racism. I know this as my children were subjected to anti English comments by some children and the Scottish police and courts both described them as racist incidents. The council did too when using as evidence to move us.

Exactly Iggi I find it quite depressing actually that people wish to completely ignore the legal definition as they believe they know better. To the op I would maybe go in with the written legal definition to the school and insist that it is treated as a racist incident otherwise you will take it higher.

OP I think it's rather a rabbit hole to go down unnecessarily if you argue with the school that the bullying is worse because it is racist/xenophobic (depending on your definition of racism).

There is a degree of false equivalence going on - white Americans are not disadvantaged as a class in the same way that other groups are who are being protected by anti-racism laws.

Racism is worse when it attacks the already disadvantaged, and the school will recognise this I expect in their unwritten approach to application of their policies - bringing the "r" word up will only allow the school to argue semantics with you (much like this thread).

What is far more relevant is the way your DD feels about the taunts. Bullying is like harassment, it is largely a crime defined by the effect on the receiver. I think you'll get a far better outcome if you focus on clearly explaining your DD's distress.

It is not an argument about semantics. There is a legal definition of racism and schools have a statutory duty not to just comply with the equality legislation but to actively promote anti discriminatory practice.

Under the law, no 'racism is worse' than others, all racism is illegal and all schools have a duty to go beyond compliance with the legislation to actively promoting equality in all aspects of their operation.

bringing the "r" word up will only allow the school to argue semantics with you (much like this thread)

How can they argue semantics when it is the law?

It is racism. It's you and others like you who are arguing the semantics of it, the law however is very clear.

would it help the people arguing the semantics of this one to apply their silly semantics to rape?

Linda in Eastenders.... is it not rape because she didn't scream and fight her rapist?

plase no one bother answering what your personal take on that is.... what matters is the law. It was rape.

And what the OPs child is suffering is racism.

Sleepy American is not a race. It doesn't negate the fact that her children are being bullied which is horrible but a country cannot be a singular race.