To wish my parents hadn't moved abroad?

[CuthbertDibble]

They seem to be missing out on so much, there have been a few more grandchildren born since they went and they don't have the same, lovely, relationship that they had/have with the ones that were around before they went.

The other issue is they don't have their own place over here so they end up staying for two to three weeks and they do it two or three times a year. We're good with house guests, we have lots, but more than a long weekend becomes a bit of an imposition.

I love my parents but they are now turning into annoying guests I'd rather not have to entertain.

Anybody else have issues like this?

Dozie It wasn't just your numbers I had an issue with but the basic point that staying with your children twice a year for 2 weeks (when the OP says she has a spare room) isn't exactly "scrounging a holiday". The terminology says it all, unfortunately. But I accept that I'm in a minority and thankfully don't seem to have the same type of family as you do.

I understand that you wish they hadn't moved, and YANBY for that. For the rest, I think you're VU and come across as rather selfish. They're your parents, it's not months, it's a couple of weeks here and there. They probably sacrificed a lot to bring you up and now it's your turn to do something for them. At least there's two of them to keep each other busy, they go out and don't hang around you all day.

There's nothing wrong with setting a few ground rules to make their stay easier, as some have suggested. But generally, no, I really don't think that you can suggest a B&B to them without looking like a total cow, if you have the space.

Sorry, just my view, as a person who lives abroad and has a parent come visit and visits back home frequently.

I get it OP . Have another baby and fill up the spare room?

Had a look around Mandy and can't find any issues.

I think you have spectacularly missed the point.

This isn't about having people to stay for a few weeks. It's family imposing on you for months every year to the extent its crippling both emotionally and financially in an arrangement that was not agreed.

It is selfish to impact your kids marriage by putting it under unecessary strain, it's thoughtless to leave your kids struggling to pay for food, it's downright rude to expect to be waited on hand and foot.

They probably sacrificed a lot to bring you up and now it's your turn to do something for them.

That argument's total crap. I had my children because I wanted to have children. I'm happy when they are happy. I'm fulfilled when they are fulfilled. Their successes and failures cheer me and sadden me. I would not take back a second of the time I have spent raising them to do anything else.

They owe me precisely, absolutely, nothing. If they want to do things for me as I age and our positions, in some sense, reverse, I shall be grateful and proud. If they never speak to me again, I shall be inconsolable. They owe me nothing.

Having children is not the down payment on an investment. You have children because you want to have children. They owe you nothing.

It's 2-3 week long visits, 2-3 times a year.

They prefer OPs home as it is quiet without DCs not because they particularly want to see the OP. I'm probably the DPs age and would never inflict myself on my SIL or DIL for 3 weeks unless I was doing something helpful such as baby sitting.

Thanks for your analysis Yellow but I haven't missed the point. I just don't agree with you. Two entirely different scenarios.

The original post says they stay for 2 or 3 weeks, 2 or 3 times a year. That's somewhere between 4 weeks and 9 weeks (at most). A month and a half maybe as a average, split over 3 separate occasions, with a spare room. For the grandparents to spend time with their grandchildren which the OP clearly wants to encourage.

Yes, how very dare they ?

Having children is not the down payment on an investment. You have children because you want to have children. They owe you nothing.

^^ Exactly this.

OP (and anyone else on this thread with 'boomerang parents') I don't think there is anything you can do apart from either 1) confront your parents honestly about how the arrangement really isn't working and take the flak, 2) move to a smaller house so there is no spare room or 3) have more children so again you have no more spare rooms. Personally I'd go for 1) but I'm a great believer in honesty + brief, resolvable upset rather than silent reluctance + years of angry resentment.

Just to clarify, we don't have children, we just have the spare rooms, it does cost us more when they stay but that's OK, we are fortunate that we can afford it.

I like having them to stay... for three or four days, more than that and it becomes a bit suffocating.

When they are here they don't go out all day, they read and do crosswords and they spread themselves all over the house. They behave exactly as they would in their own home, except they don't have to cook or clean here.

They spend very little time with their grandchildren, I think it's a shame and I think they're missing out.

I wish they hadn't moved abroad and it's mostly because I think they're missing out on their family's lives in the UK.

You're not remotely unreasonable OP and you're not selfish either. Your parents are emotional bullies. I remember a thread last year where a poster's parents had sold their house and lived in a mobile home during the summer but wanted to stay with them all winter (I've probably got the details wrong but it was something along those lines - in N America somewhere I believe).

Children are not there to provide free hotel services and treating your single children as though they have nothing better to do than play host to their parents is outrageously entitled.

YANBU whatsoever.

The question now is what are you going to do about it?

YANBU OP. In response to your original post, it is a shame they're missing out on so much from moving abroad.

However, moving on to the main topic the thread has now strayed onto, I think that YANBU there either. House guests for three weeks is too much. Even when they're your parents. There's a good reason why most people want to move out of the parental home once they reach adulthood, and that's the same reason most people don't want to have their parents stay in their home for more than a few days.

And to all those saying you owe your parents because they brought you up, maybe they'd have a case if you were single and in a 2 bed flat. But they didn't bring up your DH, therefore he owes them precisely zero. And I'm amazed he's not the one kicking up a stink.

It's time your sibiings put them up. Even if you each do a week, that might be tolerable. And they'll build a much better relationship with their grandchildren actually staying with them. If your siblings want their children to see their grandparents then they need to take a turn facilitating it. And if they're not happy about it, then tough really.

OP, I think your problem is that they are inconsiderate house guests.

I don't think your choices are to put up or shut up. How about letting them know that there are house rules? Let them know what food you need bought. Let them know that you expect them to cook some meals. Ask them outright to do some cleaning or ironing. Sometimes people need things spelling out to them.

If they are then unhappy with the situation once you have spelled it out then perhaps they will go elsewhere next time.

Do you think they are happy? It could be they are quite OK not being too involved with grandkids...although I appreciate that is hard for parents to accept.

My situation is the opposite of yours: I live overseas with 3 DC and no family on this continent. I often think my parents are missing out on many family things: they do visit but always seem to just miss important events (birthdays, recitals, competitions, parades....) that the kids would love them to be there for. However, I have come to the realization that my parents are not too bothered. I often wonder how it must feel to be a grandparent - do you really love those children as if they were your own, or is it a little more removed and distanced? Is it awkward because you don't know how involved to be? It must be tricky.

As for the visits, when my parents come they do stay with us but only for a week or so, then they take off somewhere for about a week, then they stay with us for another week. It works rather well. Vice versa, when I go visit them I try to do something similar: stay with, then travel alone (to visit the ILs for example), then check in again. This has not been fool proof though and next year I think I will not stay with them, but issue an open invite to come visit us wherever we end up...

Anyway...could your parents not be encouraged to go travel for week during their trip to the UK? There are so many interesting historical sites surely they would take advantage of making the trip to do more besides visit you (I mean that in the nicest possible way!). Any YABU - I love my parents dearly, I look forward to them visiting like a kid waiting for Santa....and then they arrive and within hours I am wondering what on Earth I was thinking...

Could you ask them if they'd consider making one longer trip of about a month once a year? As someone whose in-laws who live overseas stay with us for weeks at a time (and likewise us when we visit them) I don't think three weeks is especially long but doing that two or three times a year would be really disruptive.

Also, what was the relationship with the DGC like before they moved? Were they providing a lot of free, or very cheap, childcare? Just today on the train I heard a woman in her fifties or early sixties trying to negotiate a change in working hours with her boss because her DD (presumably just before I got on the train) had just rung her up requesting emergency childcare as the childminder was sick (sounded like something serious & longtermish) and she can't afford a nursery. It was really painful to hear because it was obviously something that she felt obliged to do, not want to do, and had obviously been asked at short notice before. I can see a situation where having adult children expect that of you would make you want to pack it all in and move.

I've seen the retirement overseas go wrong all too often. It's a marvellous idea when you are fit and in your sixties. It all falls apart and goes wrong when you are in your eighties, need constant healthcare, which you have to pay for, your friends are all dead and you have no support network. It happened to my aunt and uncle, who moved to be near friends. Within two years of them arriving, both of their friends died in quick succession, leaving my aunt and uncle knowing virtually no-one where they lived. They did make more friends, then they died. My aunt and uncle couldn't afford to move back home. Their last few years were very lonely, and took a massive toll on my uncle when my aunt had a stroke and became bedridden. When I saw him at her funeral, he said that moving away had been the worst decision they had ever made.

My mum lived with us for 2 years. We bought a bigger house and she did have her own sitting room so after 7 when emerdale came on, my life was my own (well appart from the 2 hours spent getting DS to sleep and then coming down to check on her and make supper if required.

I shopped, cooked and cleaned for her, organised her paperwork and finances, booked and made appointments and did lots of chatting and drinking tea. I worried about her. We used to argue. She was very set in her ways and had undiagnosed dementia. She was also depressed from being ill, deaf and largely housebound.

She spent two years in a care home before she died in June this year. It has been hell. I wish she were here in my house drinking tea and driving me round the bend. Just a thought.

I think there is some wilful misunderstanding of this thread. If posters state that they find it difficult to host houseguests, be they parents, in-laws or friends, at regular intervals and/or prolonged periods of time, then there really isn’t any point arguing from a removed situation that it’s not difficult at all. Just take their word for it! The original AIBU related to the OP’s wish that her parents had never moved abroad. IMO she is not unreasonable to wish this but would be unreasonable to impose these views on her parents, just as they are not unreasonable to live abroad but would be unreasonable to expect her to facilitate this or not discuss the plans and impact on her life before making such a decision.

I’m quite impressed by the number of saintly souls here who would not find having houseguests for 3 weeks at a time (and in my case 6 weeks in the summer), 3 or more times a year to be disruptive to normal family life. Look at your daily life and things you have going on at the moment – maybe it is work stress, health issues, diy projects, plans with friends, raising children… then imagine that you have an extra two adults in your house, with their own personal quirks, whom you are trying to ensure are comfortable. It’s lovely to have them there and they help out with bits and pieces which you appreciate but it’s not really the way your house normally ticks over. There’s extra housework to do, extra cooking and it is costing you money that you can ill-afford. There’s also a stream of people visiting them almost every evening because they are nice people who are missed by friends and family in the UK. It’s do-able for a few days, of course it is, but they are still there the next week, and the next, and the next… so you put things on hold while they are here. Even if those issues don’t come up in others’ lives, what about just the need to relax and not always be “on” for the sake of houseguests. Ten days is about my limit after which I just need some downtime.

I love my parents and will always be there for them. This is why I won’t push the matter with them and I’ll just suck up my “role” in this family. Does that mean that I have no right to need to let off steam on an anonymous forum from time to time? And does my annoyance with the situation – about which, I repeat, I was never once consulted – cancel my love for my parents? Of course not and those suggesting that OP and I are disrespectful and selfish because of this are blinkered. Am I selfish for not wanting my house taken over for long periods at a time, well yes I am and I recognise this. Are my parents selfish to expect to have the use of our flat anytime they want, yes – this is also selfish. Somehow we need to find a way forward that ensures we continue to enjoy each other’s’ company without overstepping personal boundaries. I’m working on this which is why I ended up in counselling. I have thought every bad thought imaginable about myself for daring to suggest that my parents should consult with me before moving into my home and these thoughts have pretty much just been compounded by Mandy214, so thanks for that. Didn’t think it was possible to feel worse that I already do.

I know I will miss my parents when they are not around. I get upset just thinking about it now. This is partly why I wish they lived here so I could make the most of the time they have left and see them more regularly rather than this intense, all or nothing relationship we have now. I desperately want to enjoy every minute of every day that I spend with them but the situation is too claustrophobic and despite every best intention, it just does not work for the prolonged periods of time. My main gripe however is that they didn’t think everything through before deciding to move abroad. They thought about their own lives and how they would be improved, which, of course, is their priority and they should be thinking that way, but not about the lives of those left behind. I don’t just mean in a negative way – they seemed utterly shocked when first I, then DB got married, then DB and SiL had children. Each time was like a blow to their planned life in the sun – there just wasn’t supposed to be anything left back here for them. They adore their grandchildren and it is since their births that the visits have gotten more frequent and longer. They want to spend more time with them and I can see that it devastates them when my nephews act strange and shy around them because they are virtual strangers when you have the attention span of a toddler. In much the same way, my mother cried down the phone to me that she was missing out on my wedding plans and didn’t feel a part of proceedings. I feel for them in this respect but can’t help getting exasperated, thinking why on earth didn’t it cross their mind that at least one of their children would produce grandchildren and they might need to make provisions to ensure they can visit regularly. I think there is also an element of keeping up with the Joneses. Many of their expat friends have kept a home in the UK and flit back and forward when they need to. My parents are copying but using my home as the UK base. This is why I wish they were here rather than over there.

Thanks to those who offered helpful suggestions for my own situation. And apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread somewhat. Unfortunately my DH is not willing to be the bad guy although he will back me up if we tackle the situation as a united front. It’s not ideal but I can’t say I blame him – it’s a big ask. Anyway, I have already described what happened when we did tackle it before. Before I am flamed again, can I reiterate that our attempts to talk it through with my parents focused on the need for them to check with us before booking flights and respect times that we say are inconvenient and at no point did we say, nor will we ever say that they cannot stay with us at all. I’ve also spoken to by siblings about the increasing pressure that this situation is causing and that I will be continuing to find ways of making it easier. They have both categorically said that they will not support me as they do think it is my “role” to put them up when needed. I’m starting to think mandy214 might actually be my sister.

Lastly, downsizing – tempting in a way but in reality it’s the worst thing we can do. Like I said, I would always want to ensure we are able to provide for my parents and am willing to accept compromise on both sides. Our spare room is actually my home office as I do a lot of project work from home so we need to keep this space for our own reasons. In reality, upsizing is the way forward but if anyone has any suggestions as to how we can save to do this, carry out the necessary work in our current flat to make it sellable and actually conduct a move when we have longterm houseguests, who cost us money, at regular but somewhat unpredictable intervals each year, I’d be delighted to hear it. Even then, we would never be able to afford more than two bedrooms in this city so the best we could ever hope for is that we would just have more all-round space.

Notmyusual - I feel for your predicament but I disagree with your generalisation that people don't think about the consequences of their plans when they move abroad. Perhaps they didn't (but can you hand on heart say with all the major decisions in your life, you've considered how your parents would feel about it as part of your decision making - I certainly haven't?) but I think how you'll feel - even if you've thought long and hard about the decision - can often take you by surprise. My parents moved abroad before my sister and I got married. I didn't know how my life would pan out - so how could my parents have?! My sister and I live 300 miles away from each other, both have lived abroad for spells, so my parents didn't know where we'd end up 5 or 10 years down the line.

Of course they will have expected us to get married at some point, then go on to have children, and it no doubt factored into their decision. But they weren't to know how they'd feel about the grandchildren, how my life would change as a result of having children etc and whether their decisions would adversely impact on my / their lives.

Well, things change over time, your DNs will grow older and eventually leave home freeing up a room (though I guess it will be a long wait), career changes, job opportunities, health problems, all can come along unexpectedly and alter the plans.

But if your siblings have that attitude they probably will still have it when your DPs are old and infirm, maybe make a point that you are putting yourselves out now and the siblings can do their bit when their DCs are older and left home.

Notmyusual - I find your posts very depressing indeed. Essentially your entire family is expecting you to put up with the current situation, and they really could care less about the impact it has on you and your DH. You've needed counselling FGS! Please stand up for yourself. What a dreadful state of affairs when you'd rather accept the stress, the expense and the piss-taking, maybe even risk your marriage, than tell your family that this cannot continue. You do not have to accept that this is "your role" . It is not.

Op - you're in a similar boat. Time to speak up.

Both - please don't be martyrs to your families' selfishness. Are you also going to be expected to put your life on hold when your parents become old and infirm because I can't see anyone else putting their hand up to assume or even to share "your role".

It wasn't a generalisation and I tried hard to ensure it didn't come across that way. It is a specific description of my own family dynamics. I've heard my parents tell other people not to worry about the "boring stuff" and just to take the plunge because everything will work out. A family friend is considering following them abroad but is looking to take on a small flat back here so they can spend equal amounts of time in each country and I've heard both parents, on multiple occasions say things like "don't be silly, why reduce your retirement fund. You've got a daughter, haven't you? You can stay at her house". Said daughter is 21 and trying to save for a deposit on a flat. Who knows if she'll have the space, get married (to someone who is happy with this arrangement), end up moving to the other side of the country, have an army of kids or maybe install a sex dungeon in her spare room . The point is that while none of us might think through every decision with regards the consequences on others, when it comes to such a big life-changing decision which has obvious direct consequences on family members then yes, I certainly would and I also believe the majority of expats do too. Then there are those who see the dream and follow it blindly without thinking about how others will be impacted. My parents genuinely did not expect that anything would change back here, it's like a tree falling in the forest; in their heads UK life just seems to stop when they are not here. When each engagement was announced there reaction was a stunned "but you were settled" and when the DCs came along "but we weren't expecting children." And we knew, as they would, if they had stopped to think, how much they would dote on new grandkids - they were never ever going to be the distant grandparent type, it's just not in their nature. They just seemed to believe that their family, as they knew it, would remain preserved in the same state on the day they got on the plane and they could dip in an out as it pleased.

I just can't imagine deciding to up sticks to another country and not think through where I, or my relatives, might be 10, 20, 30 years from now and how this will affect me along with them.

It's not just the impact on my lifestyle but I worry for my parents' own future. I've tried to have conversations about them growing old(er) and potential health issues many times but they brush it off every time because they don't want to talk about morbid stuff. I'm scared to death about what will happen to them when they are old and ill and isolated and I'm scared because I love them, despite how selfish I might come across here. Once again, however, their heads are in the sand as they live only for the moment and to be honest, I admire them. I wish I could be like that and on one hand I do agree that they have the right to live as they please but I know that when the time comes they will need support. I'll probably have to change jobs as I can't be jetting off for periods of time at short notice, or we'll have to move them back here with us permanently and therein lies the rub. They are entitled to follow their dream but their dream will ultimately include an expectation that I will care for them permanently. All I want is for this to be discussed and appreciated rather than expected with no thought to the consequences for my family life.

Notmyusual, i really feel for you in your situation. Even if you cant actually say anything to your parents, perhaps you could seize the opportunity to speak up next time you overhear them encouraging others to emulate them- maybe just to plant the seed of doubt.

OP I sympathise. My parents moved abroad a couple of years ago and visit 2 - 3 times per year and I take DS out to visit them as well. They generally come to stay every other year for Xmas and it's normally 3 days however this year they are staying for a week. Without wishing to sound horrible I am now slightly dreading xmas, as I will be expected to run around after them for breakfast, lunch, dinner and cups of tea! They sit around all day and don't do anything.

By xmas day I fear I will be going demented! YANBU, whilst they're your parents it doesn't mean you have to think it's wonderful having them there!

Marking place to post later but in the meantime, EEVEElution, ask her to remove it on the basis that you need the storage. My DM started to do this which especially ticked me off as my parents have a holiday flat abroad which we were told (before even trying to) that we were under no circumstances allowed to leave anything in.

Last time she was here I said "Sorry mum, we need the space, you can't leave that stuff here and anyway, it's for the wrong season so you won't wear it."

She does have a drawer where she keeps some toiletries so that she doesn't have to bother about "100ml" stuff at the airport if she only has hand luggage, but that's it.

OP, sympathies - I'll post more later - but frankly, your parents are being very disrespectful to you, not the other way around.

I don't really understand why you tolerate all this, though:

"They do “contribute” in that they go grocery shopping but we halve the bill – which is great apart from the fact that they must eat meat at every meal (we don’t) and will only buy the best brand names. They don’t eat pasta, rice, salads or soups whereas all of these are staple weekday meals for me to keep to a budget, so my half of the bill is invariably 3 x more than my usual weekly grocery bill and they end up preparing meals, for which I should be grateful, but it never anything I would actually chose to eat. Then there are the increased heating bills – they insist on having the heating cranked up and the electric fire on full blast, even in July because they are “used to a hot country”. I would estimate that each visit by them to us, costs me at least £500."

If they're guests in your house, all of this is straightfowardly rude. If they want to dictate the food and temperature, they should go an rent a house or check into a hotel. If they can't afford that, it isn't your problem. You or your partner do need to stand up to them a bit; even if you can't or won't throw them out, you can at least make them be tolerable guests.