to loathe Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories more than UKIP?

[rootypig]

They have let this country down so badly. And now we all have to reap what they've sown.

hollow I think that's what will happen in may. I really do.

wine I think I may up and leave this country if that happens. It really is a huge fear for me.

I agree that people's concerns about immigration need to be addressed, shouting racist at people isn't going to make it go away. UKIP are tapping in to people who feel disenfranchised and ignored by politics and are playing on their fears.. I don't believe for a moment UKIP would be any party of the people but they make the right noises to make people think they are listening.

I have images of workhouses flashing through my mind whenever I imagine that scenario. I already know a lot of young people who have left under this tory government. I'm in my 20's and most of my friends are fed up and disillusioned.

'can someone tell me ukips policy on disability?'

I don't know. But Star Etheridge is heir disability spokesman.
This is what she says on her website

"UKIP are in fact
the only mainstream party who have a Disabled Person
as
their Disabilities Spokesman"

www.staretheridge.co.uk/

I absolutely understand that people have genuine concerns about immigration. I do not believe that UKIP have genuine concerns about immigration. I believe that they are using some genuine concerns about immigration to further their racist, divisive and nasty cause, which is to keep the rich rich and let the poor rot. To keep the status quo. To remove protections from the most vulnerable in our society.
Genuine concerns about immigration could be met by discussions about quotas, integration, increased investment in housing and schools and health.
ALL FUNDED BY INCREASES IN TAXATION ON THE RICHEST AND ALSO REMOVING TAX LOOPHOLES AND MORE VIGOROUS COLLECTION OF TAX FROM CORPORATIONS.
Which UKIP won't countenance.
Immigration brings net benefits to the GDP of this country and also to the culture of this country.
Talk of 'taking our country back' is inflammatory and yes, racist.

One of the points that is always lost in these kind of conversations is that Britain belongs to a lot of the people who are called foreigners anyway. While Britain was colonizing masses of the world, the resources of those colonized nations is what was being used to build and maintain the empire that has made Britain the world power it is today. The descendants of all those colonized nations should have every right to benefit from what Britain is now.

I said: 'I want a government that will tackle the deficit so my kids aren't paying for it in 40 years time, reduce inequality (by raising low wages and having a sensible benefits system), keep the NHS, tighten up on tax avoidance by large firms, deal with the West Lothian Question, move away from carbon-based energy, and keep an eye on our borders. That's just a start. Can anybody out there suggest who I might vote for?'

To which Claig replied That is UKIP apart from "move away from carbon-based energy"

Which is a bit bloody odd as whenever I do one of those daft on-line quizzes about 'How should you vote?' or 'Where do you lie on the political spectrum' I always come up on the liberal-lefty (rather than authoritarian lefty) part of the spectrum. So off I toddled to the UKIP website, ignoring all blandishments to give them my name and postcode.

Found this: 'UKIP will abolish inheritance tax.'
Inheritance tax is redistributive. It moves money from better-off families into the general pot. My DC are likely to pay a fair chunk - and so they bloody should.
And this: 'Make sentences mean what they say.'[re prison]
What? No parole? Ever? For anyone?
And this: 'Teach children positive messages and pride in their country.'
Now, I hope my DC have some pride in their country: that it is a democracy, with laws against blatant racism, misogyny and homophobia, with an NHS and a social safety net. But it isn't all 'positive messages': they need to some of less-than-glorious stuff too. Otherwise it's just propaganda.

No mention of keeping the NHS free at the point of access, or of a lot of other things.

So, no, I won't be voting UKIP.

If you ask UKIP where the extra money to pay for their suggestions come from (I am not calling them policies, as they are in no way thought through) the answer seems to be - by coming out of the EU.
So - ask them this - how soon could we come out of the EU?
How soon is this money going to be available?
Where will the savings come?
will there be any related costs for us?
How much do we stand to lose when we lose the benefits to business of being in the single market?

Yes, you are.

I think a lot of these threads are stealth UKIP promotion.

'No mention of keeping the NHS free at the point of access'

'her explicit rebuttal of Labour’s claims that Ukip will charge patients to see their GP, in fact, she goes further, ‘UKIP will ensure the NHS remains free at the point of delivery and need. A two tier national health system, where those with money can opt to pay for enhanced services will never be acceptable,’ she will say.'

www.ukip.org/louise_bours_standing_up_for_the_nhs

All of the points you mentioned are UKIP policies apart from the "move away from carbon-based energy"

The effect of one lie is interesting.

DD was a couple of months too young to vote at the last election but most of her classmates voted Lib Dem because of that infamous promise about tuition fees. That happened all over the country.

Anyone who knew anything at all about politics knew that the LDs would never be in a position to deliver on that promise and, even if they were, would never actually do it.

Yet enough extra votes went to the LDs to give them the power to bolster up a minority Tory government.

If the LDs are finished then UKIP is the party that will mop up the protest votes and even a single slogan/false easy promise will swing it.

unitarian the Yes campaigners dominated social media in the Scottish Referendum and I found the level of credence given to the independent websites combined with the denunciation of the biased BBC impossible to argue with! It concerned me how quickly groupthink took over and hardened positions.

To many in Scotland The Union / United Kingdom seems to offer nothing positive (I came to the conclusion we don't see the benefits because it's all around us in the fabric of our lives and we take it for granted. Scottish Independence for me is an exercise in unscrambling an omelette.)

Similarly the EU seems distant and useless in the UK because we don't realise the positives that come from membership. If you look into modern economic globalism being an independent sovereign state looks less feasible. In order to trade favourably with Europe doesn't Norway have to comply with freedom of movement too? I know that I now have to go educate myself on the EU..

hollow - why should young people who had nothing to do with colonization have to pay for the sins of their ancestors? Is it guilt by association. How very liberal minded!

Mehsmum, you said: 'I want a government that will tackle the deficit so my kids aren't paying for it in 40 years time, reduce inequality (by raising low wages and having a sensible benefits system), keep the NHS, tighten up on tax avoidance by large firms, deal with the West Lothian Question, move away from carbon-based energy, and keep an eye on our borders. That's just a start. Can anybody out there suggest who I might vote for?"

Can I seriously what you look at green policies? They have said they will hold a referendum on Europe, because they're pro-democracy. Their policies are based on treating ordinary people decently, rather than sucking up to big business and mainstream media.

UKIP are Tories, literally. They're made up of ex-Tories, funded by former Tory party donors, they do not offer an alternative at all, let alone a sensible one.

ConkerTime, the Scottish independence vote was about whether Scottish people sold have the right and ability to determine their own future by electing a government with full powers to run a nation or not.

The UKIP/EU debate is about a similar thing. Should the United Kingdom be sovereign and detemine its own laws or should near to 75% of its laws be determined by Brussels?

Should the United Kingdom be sovereign and detemine its own laws or should near to 75% of its laws be determined by Brussels?

No, because if we leave the EU then we leave the only united front we have against parties such as UKIP, the French Front Nationale and similar. I think Europe needs to work together to stop them gaining power and support.

I feel disenfranchised. there is no low spending small state low tax party in the UK at the moment. Cameron and Milliband occupy very similar high spend middle ground with very high taxes as their base.

If the Tories could do a pact with UKIP before the election they might be able to secure a victory which would be better than Milliband but only just.

UKIP as Farage said on Radio 4 this morning will take on Labour in the North where the Tories have not much chance and they will win a good few white working class voters too including small business owners, taxi drivers, hard workers and the like and will take votes from the Tories in the South.

So in terms of how to vote - in the South vote Tory and in the North UKIP if you want to keep Miilliband out.

"Thebodyloveschocolateandwine Fri 10-Oct-14 11:08:20
there I don't know and I shudder to think but brutally honestly it won't be important to people unless affected. Please see that's not my view. Just think how it is"

sadly true
seems no one can answer, do they not have nay policies?

camel young people in Britain, myself included, continue to benefit from colonialism. It wasn't that long ago and it set up a global system that benefits a handful of nations who continue to exploit other nation. Colonialism only ended fairly recently. Young people in the colonized nations continue to pay for colonialism, why are their lives worth less?

Conkertime. I fear the same if we get to the point of having an EU referendum (which is another very good reason not to vote Tory or UKIP IMHO.)
'Groupthink' is a very good way of describing what will happen and it's too important a decision to be hijacked by social media manipulation but I know without doubt that it will be.

Sadly, too few people will bother to educate themselves.

sorry Clag, seen your post now.

Democracy is not about politicians, it is about people.

Should the EU have the right to decide that it will ban some of our vacuum cleaners or should that be decided solely by our politicians who have been elected by the people and who are accountable to the people?

Mind you, Cameron's had an object lesson in how to word a referendum to maximise the chances of getting the desired result!