To not know how to explain to DSs why women wear a niqab?

[MrsJamin]

I live in a really diverse area - we've often seen women wearing a niqab on the school run and today I wondered what I would say if DS1 or 2 asked why they were wearing one. I honestly don't know what I should say or how I could explain it. They're 4 and 6. A good idea is welcome as I don't know.

What's your point then Skewers.

Why will it bring them closer to god? In their view.

Thebody Muslim men do need to dress modestly and cover their bodies if they want to dress in an acceptable way in Islam.

backonly Domestic abusers will use all sorts of tactics and lies to hurt women. An abuser lying to a woman about the Islamic stance on the niqab is in no way a reflection on Islam itself.

But its not part of their religion at all, modesty by both sexes is required one never sees a man covered up, its more of a tradition from their culture.

being born into a relgion and not being allowed to leave it freely is not choice.

I was born into a catholic family, my aunts and so on all go to church once a week, no one cares that I dont.

No one asks me, or will be ashamed, my mother was never bothered.

I wont have to run away - or didnt to marry an atheist, my bed was never checked for having a period, there was no threat of being sent abroad to marry, I can answer my door and look any man in the eye.

All these things are things I know^ school friends and work friends have had to endure.

Do you think you are helping and being kind by pretending there is not element of sexism there?

I think the problem is that religions obviously don't like questioning or justifying themselves because of course they can't.

And if their followers do start to question then that's the first step of them questioning the control and maybe them leaving.

'It's my religion' is a very easy cop out. And that's all religions

Most ordinary clothing covers men and women modestly. Trousers, jumpers, skirts, blouses etc. Why do women need religious covering, the men rarely bother with it.

Why will it bring them closer to god? In their view.

Well I guess in the same way that kneeling, standing and kneeling supposedly brings people closer to god in church?

Can you imagine with all the dreadful things going on in the world, a god somewhere marking off on a tally someone's kneeling performance in a church!

" oh dear Mrs Bucket, she sat today when she was supposed to get down, hell and damnation for her"

tiptops I live in birmingham and see covered women with men in shorts, T shirts and flip flops.

It is one law for the men and another for
The women.

And you see split families. Men and boys in shorts and trainers, running about in the sun. Women and girls sit nearby on a bench, covered up.

And all religions are deeply sexist.

Of course they are.

My 4yo actually has asked this. It really isn't very difficult to answer "because they believe it is important to cover their hair/parts of their face/head/body when they go out, and because they think God wants them to do that". A 4yo of average intelligence should be able to understand that! You can replace 'their religion' for God if you have an atheist family/4yo who you don't want to get the concept of a God. Not really seeing why you think this is an issue tbh. You will also have to explain why people are different sizes/colours/wearing trousers that fall down round their pants/kilts/miniskirts/goth attire/dyed hair and on and on at some point, you know, so you may as well get used to providing a simple explanation of the fact that people have different beliefs and wish to present themselves in different ways.

Yes The Body but thankfully christian faiths have less of a grip on us than they did our parents and so on.

they have a place and its more natural to me they are there for those that Choose them.

I hate the idea of by virtue of being born into a family one is shackled into a constricting sexist faith that one has no free choice to leave.

Oh yes totally agree fragalino

Not really seeing why you think this is an issue tbh.

not an issue why someone is walking round covered up purely because they were born with a vagina not a penis?

woodlice to a certain extent but at 4 my dds were not too young to be taught that sexism and control in all firms is wrong and of course so were my dss.

We had to counter this early as our local school is unfortunately a faith C of E school.

The body although we agree on some things I don't think you are right about what you say about younger Muslim women covering up. For many it is a conscious choice - often against their family and their upbringing.

I really think that for many it's a choice to say that they don't want to be objectified by men, and also that they want to stand up for their religion and what they believe in - even though they know it makes them a target.

And what you say here:
"That's the message it conveys to me and in no way am I trying to be rude or insulting. It's just a fact."
It is your opinion, clearly not a fact!

Backonlybriefly the point is that there are many different ways of practising Islam, as there are for all religions. We are talking about women in the UK.

But Solo being born into a religion is not choice is it.

I just know from some friends and family, leaving the religion is not easy.

I am talking about women who have made a choice to cover up when it is not expected of them by their families.

Of course some children will be born to parents who give them little freedom but that can be true whether the parents are religious or not. That is not something which is specific to Islam.

If you think about it, not being born into a religion isn't a choice either.

You didn't choose to be born an atheist (if you were) and your birth made it much less likely that you would be religious - maybe the religious people are right and you are wrong. Who knows!

The point is we don't know, that's why we should be tolerant of other people's beliefs and not just assume we are right and assume that because we are western and not religious we have the right to patronise and belittle women who make different choices from us.

We live near a town that's 99% Muslim occupancy.
We do our food shop in this town and so see lots of women with their faces covered.
Ds is severely autistic and is guaranteed to say peek a boo to every lady we pass who wears one!
Most of them are used to him now and say it back

I don't feel I should have to respect a woman's choice to cover her face in public any more than I would respect her choice to walk round naked in public - both forms of (un)dress are too extreme (and I would feel the same way about a man).

Religion can lead to many things that I have no respect for, and I see no need to respect something just because it is religious.

Strong, 99% muslim occupancy? Which town is that?

Fragolino I just read what you wrote earlier about Catholicism - that is your experience, which sounds very positive. I am sure there are others with stricter Catholic families who would feel differently.
The things you are describe as your friends' experiences are terrible, but these are not things which are set out by Islam and it is wrong to assume that every woman in a niqab has been forced to wear it.
Strongcoffee that's very funny.

Of course I assume I'm right. I'm certainly not going to say to my son well some people believe in god, heaven etc and they may be right.

They aren't right. They're free to believe it, but that doesn't make god any more likely to maybe exist than any other myth created by humankind.

Thebody Again you are failing to appreciate the fact that everyone is an individual, and as far as Muslims are concerned each person will be answerable to Allah on judgement day for their own actions. Not their husband's actions. Not their parent's actions. Not the actions of any other person except themsleves.

So, it makes perfect sense for a woman to cover up even if those around her choose not to.

I doubt your family all wear the same outfits, why do you think Muslims are any different?

Oh come off it. A niqab isn't a random outfit. It's religious dress, worn by women.

If women interpret modesty as meaning full coverage but men interpret it as jeans and a shirt, why don't mums cover their sons as much as their daughters. Presumably children have their clothes bought for them.