To not know how to explain to DSs why women wear a niqab?

[MrsJamin]

I live in a really diverse area - we've often seen women wearing a niqab on the school run and today I wondered what I would say if DS1 or 2 asked why they were wearing one. I honestly don't know what I should say or how I could explain it. They're 4 and 6. A good idea is welcome as I don't know.

"Put simply, the intention is to stop communication - between the women themselves and unknown men."

But why shouldn't the men wear the veils then? Maybe they could wear veils in public for half the week in case they see an unknown woman, and the women do it the other half the week? Why not?

And is it OK to be lusted at/communicated with by lesbians? What about the possibility of gay men lusting at unveiled other men? Why is that OK?

I know you are just explicating Barbarianmum and don't necessarily have these answers but I would like to know.

I told my DS it was because the woman was incredibly vain. She obviously thought she was that beautiful that any man wouldn't be able to resist her. I did go into a bit more detail about dressing modestly, but only women covered up etc.
And I speak as someone who was brought up as Muslim, before I get all the cries of Islamophobia.
It is an incredibly misogynistic religion.

I'd answer about literal mindedness. About how easy it is to get things wrong when you are literal minded. That some people have imagined God might want women hidden from sight, when actually God is Love and in the garden of Eden nakedness was the norm.

I'd talk about hypocrisy and bullyng too, about how in that religion, the women have to hide in too much clothing, but the men don't.

I'd talk about how we have to protect each other with love and respect, and how this fact gets buried sometimes.

I'd talk about what Eddie Izzard calls Total Clothing Rights, and about how you gave to have a free mind to make free decisions, and if you are under mind control, you are unable to make free decisions.

I'd talk about Barbie and Ken marketing.

Quite a lot of conversations waiting to happen , with questioning children.

I agree the debate eventually will have to be about mysogyny and oppression by humans, of one another, and the deep ignorance which fuels this.

It's essential to explain Stockholm syndrome, at some point. Children will then understand anything that tries to annexe their consciousness and sense of self is liable to set up a complex dynamic which clouds awareness and effectually erodes any healthy sense of reality.

It's equally oppressive and misogynistic to view Muslim women solely as an oppressed mass ...

Muslim women are as capable of exercising free will as women generally. Some will be oppressed some will not ... All as women will be subject to the external oppression of a partiarchal society

But Muslim women are women like other women!

TheAmyrlin, you were very rude. You do not know why that woman was covering. What were you teaching your son was that to degrade a woman like that is acceptable. What did that woman do to you to deserve such contempt. You talk of misogyny? Your views are bloody repulsive. You think women cover because they think they are irresistible, Le Pen once said that they cover because they are ugly. You and Le Pen are cut from the same cloth.

Has the OP disappeared? For what it's worth, my response would be 'because she wants to'. Women, no matter what they are wearing, should not have to explain their choice of outfit.

So many lazy assumptions and ignorance on this thread. The niqab is not an Islamic requirement. A woman may choose to wear the niqab for a whole host of reasons, including ones which are religiously motivated, but let there be no confusion about the Islamic viewpoint.

To the lady asking about a couple she saw who were dressed differently, why wouldn't they be? They are individual people with individual views and choices. The man was not dressing in an Islamic fashion i.e. modestly by walking around with his underwear on show. That doesn't mean that the woman cannot choose to cover up, for whatever reasons she may have.

It is also interesting that more young women are adopting the veiling despite being faced with attacks due to their muslim appearance

I think and shoot me down by all means that the younger british born Muslim women who choose to completely cover are on a oar with the young British women who say they are bit feminists and feminists are lesbians.

They are young and have no idea of the struggles generations of women have fought so they can actually have that choice.

They see themselves as radical and different but unnatural fact they are playing the games Men have created.

It would he lovely to think that womem world wide are as capable if excersising choices over their bodies but we all know that's a hell of a long way off.

Why should a woman have to explain and justify what she chooses to wear?

I thought all Muslims, men and women were encouraged to dress modestly. Certainly, where we are the more traditional Muslim men wear shalwar kameez and are often bearded.
OP, do you think your sons would ask at all? We've always lived in culturally diverse areas and DS has never shown any more interest in Muslim traditional dress than any thing else any one has on.

And in all honesty when I see a woman completely covered I don't get the message that it's her mind or her opinion that's important and not her looks. I don't see empowerment.

I see a woman saying don't regard me. I am just a woman and we all dress the same. We are not individuals and we don't count as such.

That's the message it conveys to me and in no way am I trying to be rude or insulting. It's just a fact.

I would just say that she choose to wear it because of her religion. Rather than get into 'Islam says women must wear niqab' (which it doesn't) or the 'patriarchal oppression / stop the men lusting' bit.

Thebody, that is a stereotype - you are stereotyping. ( i say this respectfully as i know you are being genuine)

No individual woman needs justifying what she wears.

However it's perfectly acceptable to wonder why only the women have to cover their bodies while the men do not and why is that?

I guess that's the fundamental difference between non religious and people who follow religions.

My family and dcs question everything whereas a religious person can always just refer to the teachings in a book.

Catholic priests dodging the cruelty of the laundries, C of E dodging female ordination. The need for one sex to cover their body.

I wish in some ways I was religious as it must be like a warm bath of a life being told what to do, what to eat, what to wear but hey not for me.

Nobody has to justify their choices to me. But until they do, I have no clue why they make those choices. I remain ignorant.

It's true we dwell forever in ignorance if we refuse to exercise intelligent query and deep thought.

Then you will have to ask every woman with a niqab why she wears it because they will have different answers.

The niqab is not an Islamic requirement. A woman may choose to wear the niqab for a whole host of reasons, including ones which are religiously motivated, but let there be no confusion about the Islamic viewpoint.

Tell that to the women beaten for angering Allah by not wearing it.

If a religion is practised in a certain way it is no use to look in the manual and say "it doesn't say that in here" because the religion IS the religion that is practised now.

Try telling the pope that Jesus didn't wear a tall hat and live in a palace.

That's not to say you shouldn't point out that they made up that bit later. You should do so at every opportunity as it's a useful reminder to all concerned that religion IS made up and not handed down by a god.

skewers I really hope not.
It seriously is not my intent at all to insult or criticise any woman for her choices.

If I can't see your face or expressions or in the worst cases your eyes how on earth can I see you as an individual.

To me it's akin to the page 3 insanity of parading boobs.

We are women. We come in all shares and sizes and do not need to he either covered completely or naked.

Get over it men.

I very much doubt every woman wearing a niqab has a unique reason for doing so.

Just the general drift would do me.

if youre not sure, you can akways say that youre not sure.

or just say its part of their religion

I didnt say they would have a unique reason, i said their answers would be different

My DS doesn't know what religion is.

99% of women who wear Niqab in the UK, wear it because they want to. And it is mainly due to religious/spiritual reasons, they hope it will bring them closer to God.