To not know how to explain to DSs why women wear a niqab?

[MrsJamin]

I live in a really diverse area - we've often seen women wearing a niqab on the school run and today I wondered what I would say if DS1 or 2 asked why they were wearing one. I honestly don't know what I should say or how I could explain it. They're 4 and 6. A good idea is welcome as I don't know.

seven the comments from the men are unspeakable while the actions of this young woman are so brave.

Bulbasaur I think most (all) people on the thread are talking about the niqab, not the hijab.

Muslim women are being brainwashed by men into adopting customs that are not a religious requirement. Islam is not about superficial tokens. When I see women adopting the niqab [full face veil] I want to tell them that the niqab isn't mentioned in the Koran. Nor are veils. The only thing the Koran says is to dress modestly."

Lurcio I don't think it's laissez faire, I think it is open-minded. Of course I have opinions - very strong ones in some cases - and DD would be aware of what they are but I absolutely believe that I want her to make her own way in the world and make her own mind up about things. And yes, I do think it's my job as a parent to bring her attention to areas where other people may have very different opinions and make different choices.

That is how I was raised. My sister, for example, has very different opinions from me on many things even though we grew up together, and we frequently enjoy a good argument debate about them.

I think it's important to learn about difference and have the confidence to form your own opinions. I trust my DD to make her own mind up about things. I want her to learn to question people around her and things she sees.

Our family has influences from different cultures, and we have friends from many different backgrounds, some with strong religious beliefs and some with none. We travel a lot and spend lots of time in other countries.

These are people I love and care for, so how could I feel my opinion is superior to theirs. I think it's importance to have the confidence to be able to accept different beliefs.

Fragolino -I think we're on the same side - that was meant to be a question to which teh obvious answer was "no, of course not", seeing as I then went on to detail a conversation with a liberal Muslim friend of my family.

Bulbasaur I think most (all) people on the thread are talking about the niqab, not the hijab.

How did I miss that? Reading comprehension fail.

I totally agree with you solosoling but there are Definatly some things that are intrinsically wrong to me like racism, inequality and sexism.

I can't allow my children to be liberal minded about those things.

As I am sure you can't

I suspect, Solosolong, that we are not a million miles away from one another in how we are raising our children. I spend a lot of time stressing to DS that other people believe different things, and one should be respectful of their beliefs. I am a lapsed Anglican turned agnostic, DS declares quite confidently that there is no God. But we have friends of a lot of different faiths and I try to stress to him that he shouldn't do or say things they will find offensive.

But it doesn't stop me identifying some practises carried out in the name of religion which I find offensive.

I might go with it's a tradition for some people.

Can you explain why we tend to wear underpants in public? It's our culture, to cover a particular part of the body. And exposing that part of body in public is considered wrong. It's the same explanation, regarding other habits in other cultures.
Some tribes expose their genitals in daily life, we think that's backward. They might think we are repressed. It's the same thing.
Forcing someone from our culture to expose their genitals in public, just because that was the norm, is the same as forcing a lady wearing a niqab to take it off.
Same feeling of humilation/ violation.

Different people, different cultures, no need to judge one over the other.

exactly barnet - and its nothing to do with religion

I'm sure I've just made that exact same point!! Aww it's coz I'm a man isn't it? Bloody sexists!!!

OP, your right btw with the simplistic approach. At that age anyway.

Op, your children probably won't even ask. Children take things as they come and are much more accepting and open than most adults!

barnet

I reserve the right to question and criticise if a cultural practise is obscene like FGM/male circumcision or sexist as in a human having to cover their body and face in public because they have a vagina or unnecessarioy inflicting pain like the ear piercing of babies.

It would be disturbing indeed if any cultural practise or any religion was not allowed to be discussed or queried just because it's airways been so.

I don't know about the not asking.

They are surely accepting but always curious.

Usually very loudly too.

It is not disrespectful to tell people there is no God or that many religions are sexist. If people find that right of free speech beyond the pale there are plenty of countries on the planet where there is no such freedom of speech where they can go. We need to stand up and be counted to say it curtails women more than men to be in these kind of clothes and I include any head covering in that. I have worn it and it very much curtails you both in terms of heat and vision and sets you apart from men rather than lets you be equal with them.

However although I am in favour of a ban on FGM I would not ban turbans, Jewish wigs on women nor muslim and other head coverings in most contexts. I think we can allow for such differences between people as long as I can wear shorts and T shirt in muslim streets if I choose.

I think I might be in favour of a ban on large men exposing their bellies on the football terraces but that's another debate.

Seriously I am not in favour of anyone controlling how any women chooses to dress.

Not men not cultural practise not religion not society not other women not the state. No one.

Lurcio and Thebody of course I wouldn't tolerate racism, sexism, homophobia.

The thing is that I don't see a woman's choice to wear the niqab as being about sexism.

I think that is simply her own personal choice. And if a woman tells me that she, of her own free will has chosen to wear a niqab, then I don't see that as being anyone else's business. And I think she has as much right to believe that her choice is a feminist statement as someone who chooses to take their clothes off as a feminist statement.

It may be a different perspective from mine, and may be a different brand of feminism, but if it is a considered choice then I personally would respect it.

None of us is free from cultural influence and we all have to consider the context within which our choices are made.

Of course practices such as FGM which actually harm people are completely different. As far as I am concerned though, this is simply about a woman's choice to wear what she wants.

*I suppose, going back to the OP, you can either use the fact that someone is dressed differently from you, as a way to introduce your DC to the idea that people do have different beliefs and make different choices in life, or you can use it to point out how your opinions are so much better than those of the person in question.

I know which I do.*

That is pretty po-faced. Do you apply that to racists, sexists , homophobes, members of UKIP, the BNP, the Westboro Baptist Church?

I've had this conversation of sorts with my son. I can't explain why women feel the need to "dress modestly" and as a bloke he couldn't see it either.

No and before you leap on your high horse I am not comparing Islam to those groups. I am querying your assumption that "it's just a different way of thinking"

Thebodyloveschocolateandwine after your angry comment I read all your other comments right through and have to say that I wouldn't dream of saying of calling you anti-muslim, why did you think that my comment was directed at you, anyway?

Of course there's noting wrong with telling peoe there are no gods, but then why do so many atheists get irritated at schools teaching their children there is a God?

Either it should be "some people believe" for everyone or none.

Telling people

And strike that either

Muslim women on these threads will explain why they wear the hijab and the niqab. Many will choose not to listen and question the hijabi/niqabi's commitment to feminism. They list all the hardships suffered in the years gone by, by women who fought for our freedoms and rights. They belittle the hijabi or niqabi by infantilising her, as if she is too stupid to make a choice, their obsession with comparing a muslim woman to a man is baffling. Its like there is a constant competition to 'look' equal. We all know that the fight for equality in our own homes hasn't been quite won yet.

People might have concerns that a man is making a woman wear the niqab. When it transpires that this woman is quite capable of making her own choices, they turn on the woman and decide to 'share' their views on her niqab.

Try walking in a niqab and you will be astounded by the abuse you get from men and women alike. The pressure to put it on and take it off is immense from eastern and western cultures alike. The mother will support her daughter's niqab, but her husband will be against it completely. The father may hit a daughter for not wearing it, she goes out wearing it and she will get physically attacked by a passer-by for wearing it. If she is wearing her hijab to express her dedication to the way she practices her religion, her husband may try to knock her about a bit as he feels embarrassed by her niqab, if she takes it off then is that victory for women's liberation? Both cultures impose their own values and try to force the woman to do what they want. Both sides just vent at her. It is especially shocking how much of the venom comes from those women who bang on about equality. You might complain of the niqabi's line of vision being limited due to her veil, but what is shocking is the blinkered view you hold of that woman despite having nothing obstructing your vision except a narrow-mindedness and the white feminist saviour complex

Phaedra um no. I have already explained that I apply it to women who choose to walk down the street dressed however they want to be dressed, and men too for that matter.

Choice of dress is not something which I find threatening and I think it is just a matter of personal choice. If you refer to the OP, we are talking about how someone dresses.

Choosing to dress in a certain way is not the same as someone being racist, sexist etc. - and if you are not comparing this situation to those groups of people, then why exactly are you mentioning them?

Incidentally, I tell my DD the same thing about the scantily clad cross-dressing man who we regularly see cycling round dressed in a mini skirt and fishnet tights.

I also said a version of it when we ended up on the tube next to a stag party with someone in full-on S&M gear complete with gimp mask - although to be honest that was an awful lot harder to explain.

I don't really care if you think that's po-faced. I would rather be that than bigoted and narrow-minded.