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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that if you are a man you shouldn't stop a school girl on a deserted street to ask for directions

519 replies

solosolong · 06/10/2014 08:19

Just that really. DD is in year 7 (although she is tall so looks a bit older) and leaves for school early when there aren't many people around. She called on her way in this morning to say that she was feeling a bit nervous because a man had just stopped her to ask for directions.
I'm sure there was nothing dodgy about it but AIBU to think that as a man on your own it wouldn't take much imagination to think that a young school girl will have been told not to talk to strangers and may be scared if you stop to talk to her?
I am interested to know what others think.

OP posts:
SevenZarkSeven · 06/10/2014 20:57

No-one is "not allowed" to ask for directions!

Where on earth has that come from.

Strange ideas from some.

shaska · 06/10/2014 21:02

SevenZarkSeven - totally agree about 'polite' often equalling 'come-on' or at least allowance of further chat.

Also... it concerns me that this is seen as comparable to what people seem to think is the 'obvious' criminality of black people. As though everyone is 'naturally' a bit wary of black people. Golly.

AgaPanthers · 06/10/2014 21:02

No, my point was that some people, simply based on appearance, will be perceived as threatening by other people. Black people are FAR more likely to be stopped by the police. In America, they are more likely to be shot too.

If black people, or men, or dogs, or anything else, scare you, there's nothing wrong with running away, but that doesn't mean that THEY have done something wrong simply because you find them scary.

MrsCakesPrecognition · 06/10/2014 21:04

In an ideal world, it wouldn't be a problem stopping anyone at any time to ask for directions. However, I don't think it is unreasonable to think for a moment whether you are about to scare someone silly by stopping them. The same way that it is nice when a man realises he is following a lone woman, so he chooses to cross the street rather than slowly catch up with her.

HelloLA · 06/10/2014 21:08

So, no mixed messages here.

Women, trust your instincts, except when your instincts are clearly wrong and my god the poor guy just wanted directions, you hysterical man-haters.

Glad we've sorted that one out.

magicmeaway · 06/10/2014 21:08

Typical mumsnet reaction -

I'm a women and I'd be wary if asking a child directions - I probably would not to it - I'd be conscious a child might feel nervous of a strange person stopping to talk to them. If I was a man I would be even more conscious

It's not sad to have this attitude - what is really sad is that years ago we were ignorant of abuse and so many people suffered as a result

SevenZarkSeven · 06/10/2014 21:09

I am a bit baffled with the race stuff as well, shaska.

I have personally found white men to be much more iffy than non-white men. That's my experience.

It seems to be some kind of point that it is unfair discrimination for women and girls to be wary of men. And so they shouldn't be. Even if their experience and the experience of all their friends etc says it is perfectly reasonable.

And I don't think anyone is suggesting that men should be randomly shot or arrested are they? Simply that it's OK for an 11 year old girl to politely decline to give one directions and leave if she feels uncomfortable.

SevenZarkSeven · 06/10/2014 21:09

Lol HelloLA

Too right.

SevenZarkSeven · 06/10/2014 21:11

Don't forget

And if the poor guy who just wanted directions turned out to have his hand down his pants, what on earth were you doing talking to a strange man when you're 11 and there's no-one else around???

Mintyy · 06/10/2014 21:13

I saw a recent throwaway remark from a male friend of mine on Facebook, where he mentioned that he always crosses the road at night if he is catching up with a lone female. He walks home late every night (works evenings) and is conscious of the tension caused by him walking up behind and overtaking a lone female. He is gay.

I would hope that other adult men could have that level of understanding about what it is like to be a member of other groups in society who are nervous about stranger danger, whether they are right or wrong to have those feelings in the first place.

shaska · 06/10/2014 21:21

More likely to be stopped by police is perhaps more of a political conversation, about racism, than it is about an actual level of threat, I think. Whereas, in terms of threats to a woman when she is alone in a public space, men are sort of... it. It's not secretly actually women flashing/attacking/harassing women. It's not that actually men are flashing/attacking/harassing men and it's all a big misunderstanding. It's a wide variety of men from a wide variety of backgrounds, and they do do it. Only a tiny percentage do really awful things, but enough men do it on a bothersome enough level that it's surely rare for a woman not to have experienced it to some degree.

And is mumsnet not full to overflowing with threads about how it's extremely important to keep ones dog under full control at all times to avoid said dog approaching a child who may or may not be frightened of dogs, no matter how childsafe the dog really is?

I'm not saying Men have done anything wrong. I'm saying I think women, in some circumstances, are aware of the potential threat a man could present, and the OP's DD's situation was one of them. Women manage to have nuance in their views of this, in that obviously I come across loads of men in my daily life and rarely feel remotely weird about it, so I don't see why men couldn't do the same, and be aware that if they approach an 11 year old girl at a time of day when there's nobody else around, she might feel a tiny bit spooked for a minute. Not to say they CAN'T do it, or that that would ALWAYS be weird, or that the man has any creepy motive at all, but that it is, conceivably, something they could consider from the point of view of the girl, and wait til they come across an adult.

solosolong · 06/10/2014 21:21

Babycham I certainly do not feel ashamed of myself. And I really do not see how this is paranoia. Have you actually read what I have written?

If you considered this as a forum to discuss opinions rather than to pass judgement on other people you might actually learn something from it.

Maybe if you read about some of the experiences others on this thread have had, you will see that actually being aware of the potential for danger in similar situations is no bad thing.

I don't see how bringing race into this is relevant at all. I am talking about an adult and an 11 year old child.

And thanks to all the other posters who have contributed helpful advice and thought-provoking comments. Yes, it is sad that this is an issue, but judging by all the responses it clearly is.

My DD is fine - as I thought she would be. It has given us a chance to talk about it - without paranoia, being over-protective or any of those other things some poster feel I am guilty of.

Neither she nor I are worried that this was anything other than an innocent encounter. I may well find an excuse to walk up with her in the morning just to make absolutely sure but other than that I think we're both on the right track. As I keep saying, not being overly concerned but just aware of what is or could be going on around us.

OP posts:
FrontForward · 06/10/2014 21:22

Interesting that this thread also came up on actives here

No one is storming into that thread indignantly telling grown women they are virtually racist or accusing all men of being rapists. Apparently 12yr old girls are different

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 06/10/2014 21:23

My own personal experience is that my street harassers have been, without exception, white, casually dressed males. Ah, there is one exception - groups of boys in school uniform.

Mintyy, I applaud men like your friend, and a few posters on this thread, who recognise and react to women's (and indeed 11 yr old girl's) fears of being accosted by men on the street. Of course they may be nice, they be may be completely innocent. But ime, they never ever are. Like a pp said, it never rarely ends well.

shaska · 06/10/2014 21:29

Oh and Seven yep I'd say the same as you about the race of the men I've had problems with.

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 06/10/2014 21:34

OP, I'm glad your dd is ok Smile

Bifauxnen · 06/10/2014 21:36

I notice the men haven't had to defend their fear of being falsely accused by teenage girls, despite the risk being so small compared to a girl's risk of actually being sexually harassed. Where's the minimization and calls of girl-hating?

AgaPanthers · 06/10/2014 21:38

According to stats, 24.3% of robbery arrests are of black people.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269399/Race-and-cjs-2012.pdf

Representation in the wider population is only 3%.

So the stats would suggest a black person walking down the street is more likely to be a mugger than a white person. Just as a man is more likely to abduct your daughter than a woman is.

That doesn't mean the man or the black person is doing something wrong simply by being there.

Aridane · 06/10/2014 21:44

I am saddened by this thread

Zucker · 06/10/2014 21:44

Women, trust your instincts, except when your instincts are clearly wrong and my god the poor guy just wanted directions, you hysterical man-haters.

I'm amazed at some of the responses on this thread. We're always being told to listen to ourselves and go with your gut feelings. This child does that and she's openly laughed at for being a drama queen by posters here. The man should have walked on a bit further, found another adult or waited until a shop/cafe opened and ask staff there for directions.

YANBU OP and your daughter did the right thing in giving you a call to reassure herself about what just happened.

Sabrinnnnnnnna · 06/10/2014 21:46

Nobody's suggested they're doing wrong just by "being there."

It was the asking directions of from an 11yr old girl in a deserted street that people had a problem with. And, bearing in mind young women's experiences of men asking directions in order to get the girl into conversation (or more) - that's not too unreasonable.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 06/10/2014 21:47

Yes, but on the other hand, I've currently been robbed by zero black men, and sexually harassed by [I don't know, it's got to be in 3 figures] white men, if you count ever catcall, every grope, every conversation like HelloLA beautifully detailed above.

So on a day-to-day basis, I'm making a judgement based on my experience. That ain't paranoia, it's realism.

AgaPanthers · 06/10/2014 21:55

I'm not sure a random man is going to know about everyday sexual harassment.

SevenZarkSeven · 06/10/2014 22:02

Yes which is part of the problem isn't it.

How is it ever going to get better when"random men" are completely unaware of the level of everyday sexual harassment women and girls are? Women and girls aren't going to be able to do much about it by ourselves, we need everyday men to understand and believe that it happens and speak out against it / support women who try to take action to reduce it etc.

I'm not sure how treating women's and girls' quite understandable caution of strange men in certain situations as discrimination and therefore a bad thing is going to assist with this aim.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 06/10/2014 22:02

Well, maybe they should. They could speak to a woman, or look outside the parameters of their usual google searches, or something?