I don't understand 'unschooling'? Can someone/ anyone explain why this is good for a child?

[TalkingPoint]

I get the concept of home educating and fully understand why someone may choose to home school. It is a decision I have even considered taking myself - but the concept of 'extreme' 'unschooling' where the child has no boundaries put in place seems to divert completely away from the responsibilities of parents. I don't under how this can be considered constructive? Is there anyone who can explain it to me, I see examples on a forum I use of children never having a bedtime and being up till 1am, never having to take regard of any rules and all the learning being completely decided by the child. I get why this may fun but I do struggle to see how these children will grow up in the social structures of the world as it is. I don't agree with all the structures we have in place but until some sort of revolution, if we want children to succeed/ function in the world they need to understand these structures at least to some extent. there is also a very good chance I just don't get it, so happy to be educated?!

They probably won't grow up in the world as you know it, at any rate. The examples you give are very extreme but essentially - I don't have a bed time, I go to bed when I am tired. This method awards the child the same luxury so to speak.

Education wise it allows education to be secondary so a child may be interested in and excited by animals (say) and visits to nature parks and so on would follow and they would learn to read by wanting to read about animals. I've explained it badly but that's the overall idea. It works okay in a home ed concept.

Context not concept!

But Onarailway I get it to that length, I get child led learning and unstructured learning - but I am seeing examples of completely unstructured lives of children basically left entirely to their own devices and it being called home unschooling - maybe a better question would have been is this unschooling?

I've seen people justify 9-5 minecraft playing as educational if the child chooses it...

I am interested too. I am aware of a vague aquaintance who is doing this. She has a lot of complaints / axe to grind with how 'unsupportive' CM (1day a week) have been overtime with her DS needing a full on 4 hour nap in the pm (CM has school runs) because the child sleeps about 6 hours from around midnight. Also complaints about how extracurricular activities (if you can call them that with no curriculum) wont support the demands of DS 'needing' to basically disrupt everything. I suspect it's just not working out. But I think she's blinkered it will all work out. I just can't see how. When we do activities with them and other home schooled children her DS is a bloody nightmare he has no boundaries none of the bonuses I see in home educated children. Of course, that could just be him.

I don't get the "no bedtime" either. If I didn't have any regard for the next day I'd simply stay up to about 3am then sleep all day the next day. I really can't do that so am disciplined (mainly) to keep to a bedtime. How much more important is it that we help our children set their rhythms. I'm flexible and fairly AP about so many things but I think giving no boundaries is really unfair to the child.

I though unschooling was about letting go of the way that school would structure and organise learning, rather than letting children go wild.

I am naive on this subject Humphrey if that is what it is about I totally get it - but have seen a number of examples which seem to go far beyond this - it may well be that even unschoolers don't think this as unschooling?

Um, we have never really done rules, or bed times or anything that could be considered 'parenting' really. And our DCs seem fine. Don't really see the problem with 'unschooling' as described although our DCs have (in general) opted for something more structured.

My parents did something similar and I wish they hadn't. When you come out of school society demands that you conform in certain ways. In order to be able to function fully in society, to have a career, to be able to take care of yourself properly, to access Higher Education - you need to be able to conform to accepted routines and adhere to certain rules.

I found it very hard to do that. I'd never had a proper bedtime or set of boundaries in place. It was difficult growing up, because I didn't have clear rules, to know what was expected of me and often found myself in trouble because I had transgressed a rule I didn't know existed.

I really struggled to hold down a job at first, and I still struggle with basic household tasks because I was never introduced to good routines as a child. I found it really destructive and it was the worst possible preparation I could have had for adulthood.

I mean, in 95% of jobs it's not acceptable to regularly start a few hours late because you just felt like staying up the night before.

At the time it felt very unstable and insecure and I really think I would have benefited more from having structure in my life.

It is Humphrey.

I definitely would not - could not - stay up until 3 am no matter what I had the next day. I don't mind the idea of that if you're having battles over bed time. But children are all different. I know some would just literally never sleep if parents did that.

Not a criticism notquite I really am just trying to understand more

It's another way of saying I can't be bothered to be a parent. Of course children need routine, boundaries and rules.

Talking I think the honest answer is just like more mainstream parents some will do it well and some won't.

A lot of the children you mention won't really work beyond a pin job for a few years before having children of their own!

I also thought of unschooling as Humphrey describes it.

In some cases Aero: in others, not so at all

Thats a really interesting perspective aermingers. I worry that unschooling can be one of two thing - a pro-active choice to do things differently, or an easy opt out clause to not do anything at all, and the two things are very different!

I thought 'unschooling' was a period of decompression particularly for children who are home educated after a period of schooling. It is a time to rediscover the joy of learning and to attempt to forget about any concept of learning in the way we are taught to think about it by the school system so that the home education doesn't become an imitation of school structures and thought processes.
I have not come across the term used to describe a type of parenting with no rules or boundaries although I can see how the two can more easily go hand in hand than no-rule parenting could with a more traditional type of schooling or even more structured home education.

My children and us don't have a bedtime. But they know when they feel tired and go to bed. Ds1 (4), went to bed at 8ish this eve, ds2 then decided to follow straight after. On average they go bed 7.30pm-10pm.

I think unschooling is for children who have been unhappy or not achieving well at school - a time to do whatever you want,a bit like sick leave for stress, or a holiday to get some perspective back.

In school, children often learn to get "right answers" and pass tests without fully understanding what the point of the exercise is. a good example would be in maths, where it is possible to get a whole page of right answers by performing certain circus tricks with numbers, but then be completely floored if the question is presented in a different format, or needs to be related to actual life.

giving kids a holiday from jumping through these kind of hoops allows them the time and space to find out that there are some things they are really interested in and want to learn about. If children choose their own subject matter and methods of learning then, with a bit of sympathetic adult guidance and some good resources, they can achieve a great deal without ever being forced to do stuff they don't want to do.

Sometimes people apply this to bedtimes too. Going to bed can be a real battle - but if children are old enough to understand that they get grumpy and fed up when theyare too tired, then they will develop their own rhythm.

I don't think unschooling is supposed to be about children having no boundaries at all. They need some basic boundaries to keep them safe and happy. It's sort of a temporary thing, removing all boundaries for a while so that children can help to negotiate where those boundaries ought to be, and take some responsibility for agreeing boundaries which are sensible and fair to everybody.

Am typing on inconvenient phone and can't re-read what I just wrote. Hope I've got it sort of right, because I am not a home schooler (just wish I was) and don't want to give inaccurate information or offend anyone who really knows about this.

Isn't unschoolimg just a move away from the 'factory approach' to schooling to something more child led? If so it doesn't seem objectionable.

And why do children / teenagers need unnecessary rules outside school? Mine seem to cope perfectly well with the concept that you do different things in different situations. So if you choose to go to a mainstream school that starts at 9am, it is probably not a great idea to always stay up til the early hours of the morning during term time because you will be tired.

We haven't really done rules neither, and don't have set bedtimes and routines that aren't necessary.
I think you have to look at the child as an individual and let them find their own routine.
My dd is going to bed now and could be awake and ready to do something at 3am, its what she is like.

onarailway

What makes you think that a lot of these children won't work beyond a pin job. Surely, without constrictions that many other children have they are able to do what they like often without barriers to their learning.

there are families where there is a lack of boundaries and no regular meals or bedtimes who also send their children to school.

I think you cannot conflate unschooling with chaotic parenting. You might get a chaotic parent claiming they are unschooling, but that isn't necessarily true.

we were radical unschoolers, as were many of our friends families.
Some unschoolers, unschool 'only' the education side, I'd suggest that very many of us start that way, we certainly did...but others allow that freedom to choose in other areas of life-and that's what we did.

Our only rule was one of mutual respect.
Five people lived in our house, and what one person did affected everyone. We had a happy peaceful house, with lovely polite happy kids.

Radical unschooling doesn't mean neglect at all, in fact it would be quite the opposite-(and yes I have parented their older sibling in the way that most have you have done and he went all the way through school, as we knew no different in those days) with parents partnering with their children to facilitate the child's needs.

We did this, living every day life as though it were a school summer holiday, doing things that bought them joy, and learning through living life, with no written formal written work, all the way through their teens til each chose to go to college and then onto university level, where they did very well indeed-as did all of their radically unschooled friends-all doing well at college, university, employment or self employment.

We didn't make them go to bed at a particular time-they went to bed when they were tired, going early if they wanted to get up early the next day.
we didn't 'make' them do anything
When they each chose to go to college, they got up on time, got themselves organised, washed their own clothes, got themselves there on time, did their assignments, completed their work, because they wanted to.
We didn't make them do any of it. They knew they could choose to go or not. They weren't nagged, or in any way made to do any of it.
Didn't need to, they were interested so they did every thing they needed to
They had chosen to go, were interested in what they were doing, and invested their time and energy to get the qualifications they wanted to go onto university level.
Each are working in their own chosen fields now.

Joyfully Rejoycing is my favourite 'go to' website for info about unschooling.

Having parented a schooled child, i can say heartfully that for us, radically unschooling is a much happier, less stressful, more successful way of bringing up children.

Morethan, it wasn't a criticism - just that the families I know who do this are very wealthy as evidenced I suppose by one parent being able to not work indefinitely to oversee the education of one DC. I suppose what I was trying to say was that not everybody will follow a conventional life of work.