To actually be worried about UKIP/Britain First?

[Sahkoora]

I'm so surprised to see so many "friends" posting anti-Muslim Facebook posts, mostly things from Britain First. I have a firm deletion policy on this, but it's getting to the stage where it's family members and people I would consider close friends.

Last night DSis and BIL came over and conversation wended around to the fact they were both planning to vote UKIP. To be fair, DSis is shockingly ignorant, has never read a newspaper in her life and seriously couldn't name a single person in the government beyond David Cameron.

Their argument is that they used to live in Barking and it's "spot the white man", and the Muslims are rude and stare at you all the time. Apparently if we'd lived there, we'd understand. I am shocked by this!

On the news I see Nigel Farage interviewed as if he's a serious contender with a chance of getting some real power. Is this so?

Do lots of people really feel this way, and will it likely make a real difference in future elections? I am a bit terrified to think that people I love really feel this way about other human beings, and are attributing it to race and religion.

And I would like the uK to leave the EU because of immigration and the debacle of EU human rights law

Human rights are totally arbitrary. 100 years ago they were ruling in favour of eugenics and enforced sterilisation. It's a load of shit,

Sorry I am black nut don't see Britain first and UKIP in the same light

BF I thing your a racist however UKIP I think your flying close to the wind but not defiantly a racist

I have had to remove some I knew for posting things from Britain first I just can't be arsed with any one who things the off shoot of the BNP is sharing material

Add message | Report | Message poster MrsDeVere Sat 04-Oct-14 18:39:10

The issue is it gives far more protection to the perpetuator than the victim

I am not a UKIP fan however I can see why people are pissed and not agree with the EUs meddling what the fuck has it to do with them what power are Hoovers are

Sorry I just can't get past playing spot the white man in Barking! REALLY! I lived in Dagenham when I was a child and it was errrrmmm very errrrr well.

Fishwife where is your evidence that the HRA affords more protection to the perpetrator of crime rather than victims?

The point about Britain and Spain is one I already made, the right to freedom of movement and how it is just as easy for a British person to live somewhere else if they want to just as much as a Romanian or whoever wanting to. I think it is a good thing and if you leave the EU you take that right away from millions. The more people live oversea and experience a different culture the better it is for us. Equally with different cultures coming to the UK which as a nation we were built on. I don't have a problem with our current system. It is a complete myth that the country is filling up with uncontrolled immigration and introducing another method is pointless, a waste of money and will be complete chaos. I fail to see how a points based system is of any use.

As for the human rights act and the EU in general if people believe everything they read in the papers without doing some independent thinking then there is really no point in having any kind of debate.

If people vote for UKIP and their policies which do not even stand up to the most basic scrutiny then quite frankly you deserve everything you get. It's just unfortunate that so many of us would be bought down at the same time but such is democracy. I can only hope common sense prevails.

I imagine the expats living in Spain are self sufficient.

seriously???

Where is the evidence that shows this mass influx of immigrants all sitting around on the dole? Which by the way any British person living in the EU is also entitled to do in the country of residence? So all those British people in Spain or any other EU country for that matter don't use the healthcare or education available? What an absurd statement.

Pressed send too early.

I don't really care what the rationale was behind Schengen which the UK and Ireland are not a part of anyway. The point of freedom of movement is also an altruistic one as well as making life 10000 times easier for anyone doing business with their neighbours. It works very well indeed in that regard. I don't understand what the problem is in having an open borders movement to make business easier. In some countries in Europe it was very symbolic and removed many years of discord after the war. To have no borders was a huge moment for many. It is protectionist, wasteful and far from perfect, but so is everywhere in the world. I don't see human nature changing any time soon.

I have said the system isn't racist and it is not. It isn't fair, like pretty much every immigration system in the world, but it isn't racist. The Daily Mail and its ilk would also agree with me as there are apparently so many Indians and Pakistanis and whoever else being let in and the UK giving passports away to any Tom Dick and Harry, probably at the expense of all those lovely Australians and New Zealanders and Canadians who are somehow more acceptable? I know several people who were deported having overstayed their visas and not had a work sponsor. A points system improves nothing.

My example of higher education is just a drop in the ocean when it comes to immigration and why people may be refused entry. Your example of a Nigerian is the same, but not what I was referring to with Farage's hypocrisy. The point was about employment related to immigration. And yes he is a hypocrite as proved by the BBC reporter not to mention that he talks complete crap. Same as Wilders and all that ilk of right wing nationalistic politician. It is easy to rampage on about something when it doesn't affect you or you've already had what you wanted.

I've read about half the thread, so apologies if this point has already been made...

A lot of the problems with over stretched public services could be solved if large corporations actually paid taxes, and if they continue to evade them, they are no longer able to access the British markets. UKIP would tax them less and screw the poor over more, they are a party of racism, disablism, misogyny and xenophobia. Make people pay the tax they should, allow people to earn a living wage and the economy would perk up no end, you don't need to vote for a party of buffoons such as UKIP to do that.

By the way, for anyone who is feeling increasingly frustrated and confused by the whole argument about immigration (which increasingly seems to be turning into a shouting match between "total xenophobia" vs "the more immigration the better, always, and if you disagree you are a racist"), I really recommend reading Paul Collier's recent book on migration, "Exodus."

He looks at the evidence around immigration (both economic and social aspects). It is really refreshing to see an approach to migration policy that seems to be evidence-based rather than pushing an agenda of some kind. I found it particularly refreshing that he discusses the fact that migration is not simple, that there are trade-offs, that there are winners and losers for any migration policy we might choose to adopt. I particularly like the fact that he is big on social policy and social solidarity, and on making society fair and happy as well as just rich, and so on. It's really worth a read.

I like the idea of an australian immigration policy but I would never vote UKIP to get it. Something about them worries me.

We need a global debate about immigration.

At present those coming to UK are students, marrying a resident, arriving as a guest and having a baby (no idea of numbers but it does seem to happen), working permit, EU passport owners, but probably a quarter, even a half of the residents of poorer countries in the world, huge swathes of Chinese, Phillipino, Nigerian, Somalis etc etc etc would move to the west at the drop of a hat to provide a better future for the DCs if invited. And surely many war torn country's residents would flock here even if it was temporarily.

But we pick and choose a handful of often privileged and wealthy incomers, who have the nows and bribery money to get here, ignoring the rest, or just complaining about them or just wringing our hands (eg all those drowning as they try to cross the Med).

Crazy.

Even the many NHS staff who are here, and which we are grateful for, are thus depriving their own countries of their skills which can't be right.

I agree with whoever said that those in the home counties with their cheap nannies, cleaners, gardeners, ignore the problems of lack of work for British unemployed.

It's a mess which is only going to get worse. And the ones getting in aren't the ones in most need.

An honest debate by those in power would be a start.

Sorry haven't Rtft but I'm getting worried about how subtle Britain First are getting in fbook. Saw one yesterday that said "share if you remember the pound note". How many people are sharing things like that out of nostalgic and all the while building up B'S social media profile? :o

errrr. .. That was meant to be

Yes Katese, they are quite insidious. They do the clickbait thing very well.