To actually be worried about UKIP/Britain First?

[Sahkoora]

I'm so surprised to see so many "friends" posting anti-Muslim Facebook posts, mostly things from Britain First. I have a firm deletion policy on this, but it's getting to the stage where it's family members and people I would consider close friends.

Last night DSis and BIL came over and conversation wended around to the fact they were both planning to vote UKIP. To be fair, DSis is shockingly ignorant, has never read a newspaper in her life and seriously couldn't name a single person in the government beyond David Cameron.

Their argument is that they used to live in Barking and it's "spot the white man", and the Muslims are rude and stare at you all the time. Apparently if we'd lived there, we'd understand. I am shocked by this!

On the news I see Nigel Farage interviewed as if he's a serious contender with a chance of getting some real power. Is this so?

Do lots of people really feel this way, and will it likely make a real difference in future elections? I am a bit terrified to think that people I love really feel this way about other human beings, and are attributing it to race and religion.

If you're a woman, or not white, or young, or working class they have nothing to offer you apart from a return to a more divisive past where you will be expected to know your place.

I don't think it's that simple. Research has been done that shows UKIP is now the most working-class party in the country.

"If Spitting Image were still around they would most likely portray the average Ukipper as a ruddy faced, middle-class, middle-aged golf club bore, who lived in a suburban semi-detached house in the Home Counties, wore lots of tweed and bored his neighbours to death by droning on about the evil Eurocrats in Brussels. But this stereotype could scarcely be further from the truth.

^Ukip's supporters look more like Old Labour than True Blue Tories. Ukip's supporters tend to be blue-collar, older, struggling economically, and often live in poorer, urban areas, with big pools of support in the Labour heartlands of the North. Middle-class suburbanites do not dominate Ukip. They shy away from it."

This is entirely the fault of the Labour Party, which abandoned its core voters (the white working class) in favour of a kind of capitalism-with-a-side-of-redistribution-and-political-correctness that view Old Labour socialism-with-a-side-of-socially-conservative-values with active contempt.

Personally I think a hefty chunk of the hatred which is directed at UKIP has its roots in class snobbery. Social liberalism has become the calling card of the naice modern globalised middle classes; xenophobia and protectionism are thick, embarrassing, frightfully non-U.

I think there are some racists in UKIP. I also think they represent the revolt of an entire section of society which feels as though it has been effectively disenfranchised.

The problem is that most people are entirely unaware what these groups truly represent.

I'm applying for different jobs - in these jobs you are not allowed to be a member of these organisations - the organisations specifically listed include:

Britain First
BNP
Combat 18
National Front

These are standard public sector NON political jobs

This isn't censorship or over political correctness - this is you can't be a racist or a Nazi

Seriously, people have to wake up - these right wingers are going to get elected and we're going to be living in a time where racial tension is going to be encouraged

No blacks
No Jews
No Irish
No poles
No women
No gays

Who the fuck is left before people will wake up and kick the racist organisations out?

well, I live in an area that is predominantly immigrant and UKIP wouldn't stand a chance.

The only people I know who vote UKIP are, in the main, pretty ignorant about immigration and its effects, going on about how they are a drain on the welfare state. I saw a graphic recently about the disparity what people believe about immigration and the actual truth. They are world's apart.

rainbow - can you provide a link that backs your statements up, please?

rainbowfeet - Since you are wondering that does make you racist. I'd report you to MN for that post on the basis that it's racist but frankly if it is allowed to stand perhaps some people looking at this thread and wondering about voting UK on the issue of Europe might see that they'd be in the company of real racists will outdated and appalling views.

UKIP not UK

Absolutely Laurie I couldn't agree more.

Agree that it's becoming horribly "normal" to be racist as long as it's coated in a veneer of patriotism. Britain First being a prime example of this. I have some FB friends who occasionally post the allegedly patriotic shite of this group and have tried very hard to restrain myself from getting into FB arguments over it. Instead, I posted this on my own timeline the other day in the forlorn hope that some of them may read it and be a little more educated as to the reality of these groups anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/12-things-britain-first.html

Also think it's down to any of us who are reasonable / don't believe everything we see on the internet to challenge the various hoax "Like if you agree with us that (insert various alarmist, ridiculous statements) are wrong" type posts. Many of these are hoaxes put about by far right organisations or individuals to whip up fear and alarm amongst so called "Middle England".

Do you have a full list Laurie?

But do they list UKIP Laurie? UKIP and Britain First cannot be equated.

No links no but I have seen with my own eyes how the area of London I was born in & the area of a London borough I lived in have become overcrowded, shabby, unsafe areas to live in & public services stretched to cope with such monumental numbers of immigrants. I have friends who are police officers who will tell you that petty crime is a way of many immigrants in particular those in the country illegally to earn money. Begging, shop lifting, pick pocketing.
These areas of London are advertised as multi-cultural cosmopolitan places to live & visit.. They are not for those that remember them in years past & defiantly not places you would want to be after dark.

Just because UKIP have a lot of working class supporters it does not mean they are a party that represents the best interest of working class people.

No party represents the best interests of working class people.

I do wonder if UKIP are going to struggle the more successful they are? Their membership is actually rather diverse, they attract the dissaffected Tories who want a more rightwing conservative party, they also attract the dissaffected labour voters who want someone (anyone!) to put the working class population first (and Labour spent a lot of time in the early 00s shouting "racist!" at anyone who pointed out the cost of a lot of their reforms would be felt by the British working classes, who are their core voters yet seem taken for granted by Labour as they have no one else to vote for).

As UKIP have been the 'outsiders' they have been able to say different things in different parts of the country to different audiences, few actually read their manafesto and other than wanting out of the EU, and less 'PR gloss' they don't seem to have clear unified positions. If their share of the vote continues to rise, their other policy positions will start getting more attention and they will have to make a choice, who's votes are they going for? I think some bright sparks within UKIP have realised they have less competition picking up old labour voters as while golf club bores might give them a few votes, they tend to be in locations that get good voter turn outs and you need to sway a lot more people to get a decent %, but then the core of the party itself do seem to be the upset Tories who want to march to the right.

Increasingly though, it does seem we are reaching a tipping point where the benefits of being in the EU aren't as well outweighed by the costs, and most crucially, the costs are being disproportionately felt by the poor.

I won't vote UKIP because of their other policies, but I can see why if you only know their position on the EU you might well think they are worth a shout.

Just because UKIP have a lot of working class supporters it does not mean they are a party that represents the best interest of working class people.

That may be so, but equally I think there are a lot of working class people who are fed up with being told that what they see as being in their interests is not only not permitted but even articulating it marks them out as 'thick', 'ignorant', 'nasty', 'racist' etc.

I personally have no axe to grind here as I'm neither working class nor a UKIP voter (though I am firmly eurosceptic). But I am repeatedly struck by the way the political discourse of great swathes of Britain is effectively written off as unacceptable non-speech by the mainstream consensus.

Ghoul... To be Frank we obviously come from very different walks of life.. I see a country that is being financially drained & communities divided by a failure to stop illegal immigration & the far too high number of migrants entering the country & seeking homes, benefits, health care & other services.

I don't view this as being a racist, I'm sad to see our country in this state. I don't vote UKIP or belong to Britain first or use & condone racist language.. Where in my post is any racist language.. If it gets deleted then so be it. I'm not ashamed of my views.

Rainbowfeet - again in case you were wondering that one makes you a racist too.

But that's your own opinion and reflection on things rainbow feet. Your eyes aren't bias free.

In my city, people love to go on how the area where most immigrants live (which isn't even mostly about not assimilating, but more about cost and estate agent bias, the latter - that many will recommend certain people live in certain areas and lie about the availability of others based appearance - has been proven repeatedly) is a horrible crime ridden area. You look at the actual crime statistics, its one of the lowest crime areas in the city and one of the two best state secondary school even when funding has been repeatedly channelled out of the area (two highest crime areas outside of the shopping centre and worst secondary schools are in vastly White British areas).

When this is pointed out, a lot of people will admit how friendly and lovely it in immigrant area, but excuse that away with 'that's because they don't shit on their own doorstep'. Pointing out most of the convicted violent gang members from our city are White British and come from those two mainly White British areas is ignored. It's their own bias blinding them - what they - or you - see has nothing to do with reality.

Excellent posts manatee

MaryWestmacott I absolutely agree - I think it's a lot easier to be the party of protest than a party that actually has to take and take responsibility for decisions, as the Lib Dems found out to their cost

People need to learn to differentiate a bit.

Between UKIP and Britain First/BNP.
Between immigrants and illegals.
Between border control and racism.

I will not be voting UKIP because I don't think their policies will work for me (white British woman) and they definitely don't work for my ds (white British male who happens to be quite significantly disabled).

And I won't be voting any further to the right cos, well, their policies are quite abhorrent to my beliefs, to put it politely.

That leaves me with the same old, same old. Unless I throw a wobbly and go Monster Raving.

AgaPanthers I agree, there is no representation for working class people. Labour left them behind the moment they elected Blair as their leader.

Ghoul without hijacking thread.. Can you explain how wanting to control migration makes me racist?

I doubt we come from very different walks of life. I grew up in an inner city area of a northern industrial city. I've also lived in Tower Hamlets for many years. Both these areas were very diverse. I'd just rather live in a society where differences are embraced or at least tolerated rather than used to divide and conquer our society.

OTheHugeManatee I agree that there is a perception that working class people hold views that are " 'thick', 'ignorant', 'nasty', 'racist' etc." But that doesn't tally with my actual experience of living in a predominantly working area which is actually more inclusive and diverse than any of the naice middle areas I previously lived in.

Making generalisations like all the new immigrants are responsible for the vast majority of the crime is what makes you racist. Immigration is a legitimate political discussion although I suspect I would have a more open border than you would. Also saying immigrants are using up scare public resources is scaremongering and inflammatory language.