Re DS dunking child at swimming

[sezamcgregor]

DS is Y2. They are going swimming with school. It's on Thursday afternoons. There are 24 in his class.

The class is known to be "lively" with "lots of big characters". School have also identified Thursday and Friday afternoons to be hard work as children are becoming tired and harder to keep concentration.

So, children split into two groups of 12:

Group A - Non swimmers, armbands on in shallow end, swimming teacher plus two school staff members

Group B - Swimmers (can swim without armbands) at the deep end, swimming teacher

Two incidents occur towards the end of the lesson, one of which is DS pulling a child under the water as he over took her.

Pulled over by Head Teacher today and put forward my mitigation that a) there was one person to 12 children who school know can be challenging b) it was Thursday afternoon which school know is a difficult time slot.

HT totally dismissed my comments.

She said that she will also be speaking to the swimming instructor as she should have alerted school staff earlier that she could not cope with the group. (Surely school staff would have noticed if she were not coping and offered to help??)

DS is missing next week's swim as a consequence - which is fine. I have no problem with that and agree that there should be a consequence.

But AIBU to think that she needs to look at the whole picture? I have a kind of "well, what did they expect to happen" view of it

NancyCracker I don't think that shouting at him again is going to help in the slightest. It also happened in school time and I don't think I need to tell him off for something hours after it happened. School dealt with it as far as I'm concerned. I've spoken to DS and will do again.

I know my child and know that he needs to talk about this several times over a space of time to let it sink in and understand it properly rather than just being shouted at again.

My ds is in year two. At the age of 7, they're not toddlers. I'd be mortified if he pulled someone under water and would be apologising as well as making him apologise as well and letting him know how dangerous it is to do that!
Don't be foisting the blame off onto other people. If you were worried about ratio and stuff, fair enough. To bring it up just after your son's been told off makes it sound like you're just saying it in retaliation!

just a thought - Have you actually told your son that he could have drowned the other child? If so what was his reaction?

YABU.

Do you really think an extra member of staff on the poolside could have stopped your DS from dunking the other child? Maybe it isn't the best time of day for him but you seem to have unrealistic expectations of what could happen. If he becomes boisterous in the afternoon I would imagine a physical activity would be better for him than sat at a desk.

What your son did was outrageous and your attitude of "what did they expect?" stinks.

And OF COURSE you have to tell him off/ explain consequences/ deal with your son "hours after it happens" so that he understands fully why it was an awful thing to do.

OP does your child display such insensitivity in other areas?

Being a drama queen seems to run in the family, op. Your mum told you the teacher shouted at her at pickup time; but the other child's mum says that didn't happen??
You all have rather a loose hold on reality, sadly.

LadyLuck10, you don't need to be such a bitch to the OP. She has said that she's aware there's a problem and yes, she doesn't seem to be getting the fact that it being a Thursday afternoon doesn't matter, but she's stated that her son has behaviour problems and with that I think the real issue is.

You're not going to get her to change by repeatedly having a go. The OP has already spoken to her son about this, agrees with him being disciplined for it and is now trying to find a plan of action to prevent it happening again. You should take a look at your own behavior now.

OP I don't think shouting at your child will solve anything so I agree with you there.

However something does need to be done. I don't think laying the blame at the schools door is the answer. They dealt with it at the time and they have informed you of it. They had the correct ratio and no doubt briefed the children before they even got in the water regarding safety.

As the parent you need to follow this up with your child at home.

Is he going to be allowed back in the swimming lessons?

Corabell - School had shouted at him already. I'm sure there was a fair bit of shouting at the time as well.

I will explain consequences and discuss it with him (and make sure he knows it is not acceptable behaviour) but I'm not shouting at him again.

Pretty you don't need to tell me what to do.
I have repeated what many others have repeated themselves.

FlossyMoo the swimming teacher that took the class that I spoke to last night told me that she hopes to see both boys next week.

But didn't the school say that he was to miss next week's class as a consequence?

Maybe try putting DS to sleep earlier each night if he is tired towards the end of the week.

I can't understand your attitude to the lesson being towards the end of the week and in the afternoon. Are you expecting the lessons to be tailored around your DS and his attention issues?

I would ask that he be removed for at least 1 lesson OP.

Your son needs to understand there are consequences of his actions. I would imagine he could stay at school and join another class for a few hours or they could take him and he sits at the side of the pool.

If you choose to do that you need to make sure he understands it is your decision not the schools and that you are doing because you agree his behavior was out of line.

If he has issues surrounding his behavior and how he understands bad behavior then surely a united front will have better results then you blaming the school or not taking action.

School have told me that he can go the week after if he promises to behave. I told HT that DS can promise whatever he likes, what he needs is supervision.

DS always starts out with good intentions, when he is calm, he is lovely. Kind, thoughtful and plays so nicely by himself. But then in a group he likes to act the clown, to be the centre of attention and translates his friends laughing at him as being positive reinforcement for that behaviour and so does more of it - until he's so wound up, someone either gets hurt, the lesson gets interrupted or something like this.

HT knows that. She has sat and told me so at meetings. I don't understand when she knows his behaviour as well as I do - she's been part of the meetings, submitted the reports, given me the Talks - why she is so reluctant to put extra supervision in place.

Flossy - the difficulty with that is that it would be a younger class and he'd either be put in reception which is lovely and stories and play - or with the Y1s with his teacher that he has just moved up from that he adores - and so it would be a reward.

I told HT that DS can promise whatever he likes, what he needs is supervision.

Really? You really said that? Do you not think your attitude is even a teensy bit problematic?

Janine - Yes, I saw the Swimming Teacher last night - she feels like it was dealt with and had asked them to provide an extra member of staff to deal with behaviour from next week.

I saw HT this morning who said that he cannot go next week. I thought that she meant ever again and told her that I thought that was very unfair. She then told me that no, it would just be next week if he promises to behave (what a silly thing to suggest IMO) and then I told her that he can promise what ever he likes but what he needs is supervision at which she make it clear that the meeting was over, I got up and said goodbye and she made no reply what so ever.

Then I walked away in tears.

She had been so supportive last year trying to make his behaviour improve.

When I mentioned about ratios, she told me that was "by the by".

When I mentioned about Thursday afternoons which she herself identified to be a problem time for DS, she said "huh, when is a good time?"

Seza - sorry for the incredibly hard time you're being given on here. I have a year 2 DS, and when I look round his class, I'd say there's several who might be capable of doing what your son did today, not because of any malice, but because they - at 6 years old - do not understand the consequences. Yes, they're not toddlers, no-one's denying that. But the kids I could see doing that wouldn't think of it as "I'm going to drown child X". They wouldn't see the difference between tugging the other child to get them out of the way in a swimming pool, and tugging them to get them out of the way on the grass while playing football. Yes, you have to sit down and explain the consequences - but I wonder how many of the parents being so smug on here have sat down and solemnly explained to their children "you must not dunk another child because they could drown", and how many of them are just lucky their children haven't behaved that way? (It's a conversation I have had with my DS aged about 4 at the time, simply because we used to go swimming with a friend and her DS, and at that age, in the safety of the shallow end, the behaviour did arise and was dealt with). And I do think it's fair enough to say "yes my son needs to be disciplined and dealt with on this issue - calmly and effectively, not in a baying for blood sort of way" and at the same time want the school taken to task for what, frankly, do sound like deeply inadequate staff-student ratios.

My ds pushed another child under water at his swimming lesson, and the child's grandparent (understandably) complained. I apologised to the coach, made ds apologise to the child and his grandfather, then sent him upstairs for an hour with no entertainment. He was very, very sorry when he came down!

Obviously what he did was wrong, but it is certainly the kind of larking about that went on in my school swimming lessons and nothing out of the ordinary, especially when they are only 6 or 7 years old and it is their first lesson.

But it isn't just up to the teachers to manage him though on this, OP, you are coming across as overly defensive and unreasonable on that point. Yes he has been told off at school. I'd then be having a conversation (not shouting at him but stern) about what he did- may have been clumsiness rather than intending to scare someone- being careful around less confident swimmers and asking him to suggest what he could do better next time.

I think the ratios mentioned are not unreasonable - they may be unreasonable though if pupils can't behave themselves and it may mean none of the kids in that year group can go swimming.

OP, my DS(7) has SEN. If he did something like this he would be punished by the school and by me.

Your DS did something dangerous, it is up to you to explain that to him, it is up to you to correct his behaviour and you should be taking steps to make sure he doesn't act in such a dangerous manner again, SEN or not.

You are not doing him any favors by letting this behaviour go unchecked at home.

I don't understand, when you know his behaviour pattern, why you don't get proactive and meet with the school prior to these types of activities and discuss/confirm what arrangements are being put in place to make sure he has appropriate supervision if he is displaying behavioural problems (which, according to what you have been saying, he is). As a parent, it is your responsibility to work with the school to make sure these things are sorted.

Janine - Yes, I said that. I feel it was a true statement.

She has told me herself about DS's problem with being told off for doing something, promising to never do it again and then be doing it again two minutes later with having "forgotten".

I went into her office with the knowledge of how much she knows about DS's behaviour. Knowing what we've discussed and what we've put in place over the last 18 months. She has been to every CAF meeting and written every report. She knows. But this morning, she had forgotten everything.