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AIBU?

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Original poster

Re DS dunking child at swimming

340 replies

sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 11:01

DS is Y2. They are going swimming with school. It's on Thursday afternoons. There are 24 in his class.

The class is known to be "lively" with "lots of big characters". School have also identified Thursday and Friday afternoons to be hard work as children are becoming tired and harder to keep concentration.

So, children split into two groups of 12:

Group A - Non swimmers, armbands on in shallow end, swimming teacher plus two school staff members

Group B - Swimmers (can swim without armbands) at the deep end, swimming teacher

Two incidents occur towards the end of the lesson, one of which is DS pulling a child under the water as he over took her.

Pulled over by Head Teacher today and put forward my mitigation that a) there was one person to 12 children who school know can be challenging b) it was Thursday afternoon which school know is a difficult time slot.

HT totally dismissed my comments.

She said that she will also be speaking to the swimming instructor as she should have alerted school staff earlier that she could not cope with the group. (Surely school staff would have noticed if she were not coping and offered to help??)

DS is missing next week's swim as a consequence - which is fine. I have no problem with that and agree that there should be a consequence.

But AIBU to think that she needs to look at the whole picture? I have a kind of "well, what did they expect to happen" view of it

OP posts:
Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 12:03

Thanks oddfod and MindReader

I think that my attitude comes from:

  1. That the HT insisted on coming to the CAF meetings for the last year rather than the class teacher insisting that she knew what he was like/what he was doing. She is now his teacher 2 days a week and seemingly has forgotten everything.
  1. His teacher for the other 3 days had him in reception and was the person that referred him to Ed Psyc and School Health for assessment. She also seems to have forgotten everything and thinks that by shouting, he'll miraculously change.
  1. After having 6-8 weekly meetings for the last year, trying strategies, identifying what works and what doesn't, knowing all that we do - they still put him in a group with 1 adult to 12 children. Even though they were noisy and could be seen to be being naughty, the class teacher did not volunteer to tell off her class.

Without a label, they'll just keep shouting and putting him in situations that are not appropriate for him knowing full well how little attention he has, how quickly he can go from good to silly and how long it takes to then calm him back down. But of course, because nothing is on paper, nothing is wrong - he is just a menace and I, of course, a bad parent.

OP posts:
magicalmrmistofelees · 26/09/2014 12:05

Just because the OP didn't shout at her son doesn't mean she didn't 'tell him off' or back the teacher up. Shouting rarely gets anyone anywhere IMO and a calm talk about behaviour and consequences probably had more impact. Shouting isn't the method used by all parents!

However I do think you need to concentrate more on your son's behaviour than the perceived failings of the school. If having another supervisor is to the detriment of the non-swimmers, then of course the non-swimmers must come first. Schools do not have unlimited resource and budget, and it's not fair that another group should be adversely affected because of the appalling behaviour of a couple of children.

If you think your son is likely to behave like this again, I think in that scenario I would remove the child from swimming classes myself. It is not fair to put another child in danger.

LadyLuck10 · 26/09/2014 12:06

You make no mention of feeling sorry for the other child, or making your 'd's
Apologise. Your attitude is absolutely poor. The school disciplined him but what did you do to reinforce this? Don't shirk your parental responsibility and leave it up to the school. If he cannot control himself then do not subject him to other children. I really feel sorry for the other child.

Aridane · 26/09/2014 12:07

Oh dear - you need to discipline your child and take responsiblity for his bad behaviour.

Agree with suggestion of apology card to dunked child.

And if he isn't going to behave, for the safety of the other children, pull him from the swimming lessons.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 26/09/2014 12:07

OP, perhaps I could make a suggestion here. My ds1 has SNs, and often can be quite boisterous without realising the danger involved (he's 8yo). They go swimming once a week right now. Prior to the swimming, I scheduled a brief meeting with his teacher to discuss how they were going to deal with his behaviour, checked the risk assessment sheet, and worked out with them how any incidents would be handled. It was decided that due to the risks involved, ds1 would have a 1:1 for the swimming time, which means his behaviour will have minimal impact on the other children.

In future, when your ds's group is going to be doing an activity like this, maybe you should just schedule a brief meeting (even if it's just 5-10 minutes scheduled at drop off or pick up time) to discuss the activity and potential problems with the teacher PRIOR to the activity.

Not a criticism, but just a suggestion. I've found it helps to be proactive.

Nanny0gg · 26/09/2014 12:09

Just to point out that swimming is part of the NC and not a treat. If a child misbehaved in maths you wouldn't expect them to be withdrawn from all maths lessons and this is the same. Even missing one lesson isn't really on. Another punishment should have been imposed.

I also don't believe in punishing twice. The OP should definitely speak to her son about his behaviour but the punishment should be left to the school.

Rocadaboyce · 26/09/2014 12:10

I think everyone is being a bit harsh on OP. She hasn't suggested that she thinks that her sons behaviour was ok. If I were the parent of the child who had been dunked (not unlikely as my DS is usually the victim) then I too would be wanting the head to look at ratios and how the group was being managed. I am confident with my kids in water but am constantly staggered by our blasé attitude to safety in swimming lessons. It doesn't take much for something to go wrong.

MindReader · 26/09/2014 12:10

"But of course, because nothing is on paper, nothing is wrong - he is just a menace and I, of course, a bad parent."

OP - YOU HAVE MY FULLEST SYMPATHY here.
I know this dynamic - I really do!!!

BUT - you need to make sure he isn't put in a situation where he can endanger another child whilst this is all being sorted out.

Focus on the next swimming lesson - how can you ensure there is no repeat problem?

I would: go over and over it with him at home
(and I agree, shouting is pointless, in fact counter productive)

ASK school what they can do about ratios for him - if nothing in v short timescale - can you go along ( I know you work)

or, can he 'sit out' lesson???

bit drastic but it depends if you feel confident you have got through to him to never do it again?

JanineStHubbins · 26/09/2014 12:11

Swimming might be part of the NC, but if one child is endangering another, then that child needs to be removed until he/she is no longer a threat to other children.

Sunna · 26/09/2014 12:17

Agree with getting DS to write a letter of apology, that may help concentrate his mind.

wannabestressfree · 26/09/2014 12:18

Op I feel for you!

I was the mum of that boy and he is now 17 :) don't worry.
I don't agree at all with the mass hysteria. He made a mistake. It might be nice he does a sorry card or something but it sounds like you are trying your best.

I teach in a school and we pride on inclusion. I would just see what the next one brings and follow up with lots of praise etc.
It will be ok. Stick at it.

SquirrelWearingATrilby · 26/09/2014 12:19

Haven't read the whole thread but I was that dunked child 38 years ago and I remain petrified of water any deeper than my waist.

I have had hypnotherapy, counselling, swimming lessons galore and nlp but the very real fear consumes me. Even typing this my heart is beating faster and I can feel myself beginning to panic.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 12:22

Rocadaboyce - No, indeed not. As DS is known to tell a tale to make it seem like an accident or not as bad as it had seemed - I did not ask for his rendition of the story.

My mum who had picked DS up told me that teacher had shouted at her and had "lost it" regarding the incident. She had been shouting at DS already and told my mum that she suggest that she and the other parent take the boys home and "chastise them".

So, my priorities were to find out what happened and make sure the girl was okay.

Phoned DC's mum and found out that she was okay. DC's mum told me not to worry and said "kids!" so was not as mad as I would have been.

I then paid a visit to the swimming pool and spoke to the actual teacher that took the lesson and heard her version of events. I asked her to clarify that she had 12 children and then other teacher had 12 children and two members of staff. I also asked her to confirm whether it was am or pm knowing that last year (no incidents) it was in an am session.

I then contacted the other parent to see if she could add anything to what I had found but she could not other than that the teacher was not shouting at her and my mum, just in a raised voice.

School told me what they were going to do about it now that it's happened but I want to know is WHY it happened in the first place and WHAT they are going to do to prevent it from happening in the future.

OP posts:
LoonvanBoon · 26/09/2014 12:23

Squirrel Sad

DS1 was very nervous in the water for years, despite loads of lessons. I can imagine that being dunked would have been the last straw for him too. He's very water confident & a good swimmer now, thank goodness.

Sunna · 26/09/2014 12:30

Why it happened is for your DS to answer. He knows it's wrong but he still did it.

What they should do is not let him in the water again until he understands what he did was wrong. You should reinforce this.

FlossyMoo · 26/09/2014 12:31

I see the difficult situation you are in.

If I was in your position I would ask that my child miss a couple of the swimming trips (sorry if this has already been mentioned or is in place).

In regards to WHY it happened. Your child did not want to wait so dunked another in order to get past. For whatever reason your child did not see this as an issue or wrong.

How to stop it happening again. Ban your child from swimming lessons for a few weeks and then have him back on a trial to evaluate his behavior.

LadyLuck10 · 26/09/2014 12:32

Your last paragraph shows that you just don't seem to get it!
WHY it happened was because your son pushed another child under water.
WHAT they were going to do about is should be banning him till he learns how to behave in a pool. Why should they be solely responsible for this anyway? You should be asking yourself what YOU are going to do about this in future.

fairylightsintheloft · 26/09/2014 12:32

As to swimming being part of the NC and therefore not to be missed as a punishment, I think that is unrealistic. I teach / lifeguard for primary school swimming lessons and discipline and behaviour is the No1 focus at all times. If they are not listening, running on poolside or doing anything other than 100% exactly as they are told, they are out. The risks are simply too great. Anything like a student ducking another and I would be personally hoiking him out of the pool by the armpits and he would not be going in again unless the school / family could provide a 1 to 1. I work school hours too and understand the difficulty this would cause but there is no way I would allow him back in otherwise. We do make it VERY clear to the kids before we start that this is the case. The ratio of 1:12 for swimmers who are ok without armbands at the deep end is at the top end of but within the acceptable range.

LoonvanBoon · 26/09/2014 12:33

Why it happened is for your DS to answer. He knows it's wrong but he still did it.

Yes, agree totally with that. It does sound as if you have legitimate concerns about your DS's school, OP, & how they're managing his behaviour. I really sympathize with that & can see how stressful it must be.

But the idea that the school, rather than your son, can answer the "why" question is very wrong-headed, IMO.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 12:40

LadyLuck10 - I can only do so much. Perhaps it is my phrasing. I mean that I would have thought that they could have predicted that he and his class mates would not be able to remain sensible when it was their first trip swimming with school since this term last year and are generally a quick to rouse bunch anyway. When I say that I want to know WHY it happened, I want to know what no prevention/cautionary measures were put in place at all. A ratio of 1 to 12 is IMO not enough for the children in their class on a end of the week day afternoon.

OP posts:
Misssss · 26/09/2014 12:46

As a teacher who almost had to jump in to save a child who had gotten into a panic because he was dunked - I agree that your son should be banned for the term. I refused to take the little dunker again because of safety. He also had a parent who tried to shift all blame onto me, the swimming teacher and then finally the fact that they had eaten cornflake tart at lunch (seriously).

Regarding your son's ongoing behaviour issues, you need to go to school request a meeting with the SENCO and get it sorted out. It seems that no one knows what is going on. Request copies of his IBP's and work out a plan and targets with school staff. You should also follow these at home. So if his teacher shouted at him, you need to back her up. Good luck.

NancyCracker · 26/09/2014 12:47

OP you attitude to what your son did is appalling, and from what you say you haven't even addressed it. Maybe if you looked closer to home, he might not have such awful behaviour.

bruffin · 26/09/2014 12:49

1 in 12 is a normal ratio. I cant see how more assistants would help even if its one to one. He dragged someone down in the pool, how was anyone going to stop him doing that from the side

LadyLuck10 · 26/09/2014 12:50

You wanted the school to 'predict' such a situation. I give up!

Op take a good long look at what happened, and your own attitude to this. You are looking to everyone else to blame. You are doing your son absolutely no favours in life.

softcat · 26/09/2014 12:52

I feel for you OP. I have no advice that has not already been given but wanted to say good luck with it all.