Re DS dunking child at swimming

[sezamcgregor]

DS is Y2. They are going swimming with school. It's on Thursday afternoons. There are 24 in his class.

The class is known to be "lively" with "lots of big characters". School have also identified Thursday and Friday afternoons to be hard work as children are becoming tired and harder to keep concentration.

So, children split into two groups of 12:

Group A - Non swimmers, armbands on in shallow end, swimming teacher plus two school staff members

Group B - Swimmers (can swim without armbands) at the deep end, swimming teacher

Two incidents occur towards the end of the lesson, one of which is DS pulling a child under the water as he over took her.

Pulled over by Head Teacher today and put forward my mitigation that a) there was one person to 12 children who school know can be challenging b) it was Thursday afternoon which school know is a difficult time slot.

HT totally dismissed my comments.

She said that she will also be speaking to the swimming instructor as she should have alerted school staff earlier that she could not cope with the group. (Surely school staff would have noticed if she were not coping and offered to help??)

DS is missing next week's swim as a consequence - which is fine. I have no problem with that and agree that there should be a consequence.

But AIBU to think that she needs to look at the whole picture? I have a kind of "well, what did they expect to happen" view of it

So, he had extra support at school and was improving and after a summer under your supervision he has regressed his behaviour?

Maybe you need to have a think about that rather than putting blame on the school.

I think the point the OP is trying to make is that if, as a teacher, you have a child in your group that you know struggles with appropriate behaviour under certain circumstances, then you need to manage that in whatever way you can. The OP doesn't think the supervision they had was adequate. The fact we are talking about bad behaviour has perhaps clouded this slightly - helping the child manage his behaviour/social skills etc. is a part of the job just as helping with literacy and numeracy is, and while parents can support this at home, they cannot be there during the school day to manage it.

YABU and your attitude to this incident is shocking. If your DS did this to my child and your response was "well, what did they expect to happen", I would have made sure that there were consequences to your family that both your DS and you would never forget.

Class size is irrelevant.
Day of the week is irrelevant.
Number of teachers per 12 students is irrelevant.

You must make sure that your DS understands that he is not to pull, push, or otherwise keep underwater another child ever. Yes, he needs to be told off at home as well. By you, his parent, the person responsible for teaching him about right and wrong and raising him as a functional member of your community rather than a menace.

It is not the school's fault, it is your son's fault that he dunked another child. When a child did an unkind thing to my child (but nowhere near as bad as what your son did,) the mum got her son to write an apology card to my dc. I really respected her for that. Have you considered doing something like that op ?

Well, I'm not going to reiterate what has already been said regarding your response, but I do think that if your DS can't be trusted not to do it again he needs to be excluded from swimming until he can follow instructions.

This is a matter of safety and if I were a swimming teacher I wouldn't want your DS back in the water until I was 100% sure he could be trusted. If I was the parent of the child he 'dunked' I would be asking for reassurance that the child responsible was removed from the class on a permanent basis unless they could guarantee it wouldn't happen again.

I think missing one swimming lesson is a mild punishment. I would have banned him until half term.

Yep, I'm obviously right.

I didn't collect him from school and then when I did get home it was bedtime and there's no point shouting when he's not listening.

He knows that he should not have done it. I spoke to HT after I had dropped him off and so did not know about him missing next week's lesson when I left him.

I do, however, know what you've told us - your child is very badly behaved but you think it's everybody else's fault. I think you've given us a good picture.

Do you work, OP? Could you attend swimming lessons and be there as an extra supervisor? I think I would do this in your situation, if it was possible.

You really need to work with the school more (and I appreciate it's hard when you're working). If you know that certain times/events are likely to set your DS off, then you need to go in and talk to them and ask them how they're going to manage them, rather than relying on them to do it.

It's a new term with a new teacher. Assume everything has gone back to zero and you need to start all over again.

My DS has SEN and does get some additional support but with anything where I have particular concerns (like school trips/sports days), I go and see the Senco and his CT and ask them how they're going to manage it. It means he gets 1-2-1 because I pretty much hassle them until he does.

Having said all that, I would absolutely be punishing my DS at home too. You need to present a united front with the school so that he has clear and consistent boundaries, particularly if those are something he struggles with.

I think this thread should be pulled and you should post in special needs.

Your sons behaviour was unacceptable and I agree a longer time swimming suspension is justified.

the whole swimming set up sounds like a mess to me. the class must be horrendously behaved for two such serious incidents to occur in the same swimming lesson let alone at the same time.

Why, hellllooooo, Gwendoline!

So delightful to see how you're getting on these days!

Clearly there are two issues here:

1. Your son did something which is dangerous at worst and very unkind at best and could seriously affect another child's health / water confidence.

You need to go over and over and over this with him so it never happens again. He MUST understand this. It would be a nice gesture to get him to write a wee 'sorry' card to the other child.

1. You believe that your son is not being appropriately supported at school. Clearly the HT has said that he can be gaslighted into bad behaviour and there are 'issues' as you are being pinged around between professionals. Keep pushing if you believe he needs it. A child will regress if they go back into a school situation which is not adequate.

Even if he does get a diagnosis, you need to be very firm with him about dangerous behaviour and consequences - he still has to understand he is responsible for his actions.

seza That was rather uncalled for.mymum was a bit harsh but your reply was very rude and juvenile.You've now lost any sympathy that you may have had.

nomdemere I work. Otherwise I would have offered.

Rightyo, I have the solution. Since your son is a good enough swimmer to drag another child under whilst overtaking them (takes a bit of doing) then get up early and bring him down to the pool every morning before work/school. It'll be full of pre-work lane swimmers, no kids dicking around. Put him into the fastest lane that he can keep up with and swim him till he comes out tired,then send him to school. Bet there won't be as much messing about at school if he goes in physically tired but mentally ready to work.

You think he should be excused because it was Thursday so he'd have been tired (wtf would that have to do with the price of fish???) and the group is known to be "challenging"?

The group didn't do it, he did, and if he was in my class (I'm not a teacher) he would be banned from all future lessons that I was expected to be responsible for.
Your attitude is unbelievably shite.

maras2 I've seen it on other threads and could not resist but have a go - I've never had such an uncalled for reaction before to try it out with.

I now understand why other posters get so upset on AIBU - people do like to say things just for the sake of it. I'm usually very polite, but HT's attitude this morning has made me rather out of sorts.

I'm guessing that the swimming time can't be altered - for most schools it's a case of that's when the pool is available and tough if it's a difficult time to manage with particular kids.

While I get that you could predict it was going to be a difficult time for your DS and potentially courting disaster, it's really not the school's fault or is it ok that he pulled another child under the water. If you and the school knew it was a difficult time to go swimming and there was likely to be problems, both of you have a responsibility to think about how to make it work better IMO. The school split the children up and put extra supervision in with the non swimmers - obviously they need to consider if more supervision is needed with the other group too.

BUT as you know your DS is likely to find it hard I would say you have a responsibility to try and prepare him for it and try and help him to manage his behaviour in that situation. As the previous poster said, even if there are reasons why it is harder for him to manage his behaviour, it's still not ok for him to hurt or endanger other children.

What your son did was very very serious and dangerous.
The other poor child may be put off from swimming completely after that.
Your attitude towards this is v blasé. You didn't even chastise him.
No wonder he has problems.

Yes, the ratio is all off but the blame for the incident must lay with your child I'm afraid. It is his fault, no one else's- and he must realise that.

Shouting isn't always effective, in fact, it often isn't. BUT you must be backing up the school to him. The attitude of 'the school did it so I didn't need to' is shocking and dangerous and you need to address it ASAP.

Your child will soon if not already be walking all over you and possibly everyone else too. Any behavioural issues will not be helped by your looking to blame anyone else other than yourself or your child.

I don't think anyone here is saying anything just for the sake of it. You asked if you were being unreasonable.

But OP surely you must see that, SN or not, it is NOT okay for any child to pull another child under water at a swimming lesson?

Clearly it was awful timing for your ds.
Clearly the whole group were fractious as there was at least one other incident.
But still... not okay, so you need to be working on his boundaries with him at home.

My dd (Y3) loves swimming lessons but is a bit nervous in the water so her swimming skills are still pretty basic. If another child did this to her it would set her back a long time - I can imagine I would have a real struggle persuading her back in the water. All that upset because of anther child's 'prank'.

I hope the child your son dunked is a robust swimmer and it hasn't knocked her confidence. Other posters are right OP - it doesn't come down to ratios, day of the week, time of day...it comes down to your son deliberately doing a really dangerous thing. I think missing one lesson as 'punishment' is getting off really lightly.