to ask what the most important factors actually are in helping children do well academically

[somewherewest]

According to a poster over on the AIBU thread about grammar schools several essays suggest that "the most deciding factor of any child's academic achievement at school is the educational background of its mother and/or the number of books in the family home".

Is parental education genuinely such a decisive factor? If it is how do we go about trying to promote an educational 'level playing field' for all children?

If you're talking about the thread I think you are, I'm positive that poster was a troll.

So long as a child received a good education (public or private) and good support to achieve their best academically, whether or not said parent was a high flying academic or not, the child has a good chance at success.

Yes ultimately a lot of money may make a massive difference but there are public (or state, whatever word you use for schools run through the LA) educated children who have turned out massively successful

I've avoided the other thread, so I'm not sure what is said, but I've read that statement above in other places.

It's interesting that the red book you get when children are born asks the educational attainment of the mother, mentions nothing about the father. And I always thought that bookstart was to ensure that children had books in the home. I kind of took them to really general statements that informed policy, whether rightly or wrongly.

I have no idea what the other thread said but there is a very strong correlation between them. I believe the highest correlation is if parents read with their children when they are aged five. I don't think it is a simple one factor cause and effect though.

I know that there is NOT a correlation between the number of books in a house and academic success. Even though it seems to make sense. I forgot where I saw the evidence.
Parental attainment is a more reliable prediction but that doesn't mean a clear genetic link, studies SEEM to show that when it is positive attitude to school that parents have this reflects on children being more likely to do their 'best' or even exceed parental attainment.
Teachers also affect learning/ attitudes to learning and expectations that a student might respond to (or against).

I would think there are some even more basic factors as well such as a stable home environment, enough sleep and enough food which is why FSM was introduced.

I haven't read the other thread but I would put 'parental support' right up there as important.

Of course not everyone could/had the opportunity to go to university (I didnt, I did my degree through work as did DH) but we are both aspirational and value education.

So I would say that if the home household doesnt place a value on aspiration or education then it is unlikely that the child will in turn acknowledge it is a route out of poverty. Immigrants from countries with no access to free education other than charity or church do see education as a route to a better life.

I was told by a fellow EU national that "you English Pfft, are thick. You do not read, yet you have free libraries, you have no culture, yet you have free museums, you are uneducated yet the BBC is the envy of the world". I see what he was driving at in general

I've not read the thread, but yes there are studies that show educational attainment has more to do with what the parents are like in their own education and attitude, rather than any specific things that they do with their children.

But that doesn't mean you can't 'add value' either as a parent or as a teacher of children who don't have that advantage in their 'starting position'.

For one thing, parents can be shown 'how the school teaches x' to get them up to speed, so if the parents want to help their children with homework etc they aren't just baffled by it, specially for things like numeracy.

And children can get plenty of practice reading to an adult within school, if they aren't just assuming that's happening at home.

Plus, inspirational teachers are a major factor in encouraging all children to achieve what they are capable of.

ha if only it were that simple !
DS really struggles at school despite a house full of books and a very well educated mother.

I have read to him every night since he was tiny and help him with homework and chat to him but he is just not academic and finds it all very hard and disheartening.

How about parental attitudes towards education as opposed to parental education background?

Whether it's native or immigrant population, parental levels of education or income (these are all influencing factors nevertheless) one common trait amongst children who are academically successful is that their parents value education and have instilled that into the children.

Whether education is considered as a means to better oneself or accrue more wealth in the long term (whichever floats your boat), the importance of getting as much education as you can seems to be relevant.

I think absence of any kind of SEN counts for a lot more than most people realise when it comes to accessing and navigating our current educational system.

Loving family, stable home life, parents who are just pushy enough but don't overdo it. Reading helps too, but you don't have to own 1000s of books as long as you read to your child regularly - you could borrow them from the library. If parents are bright academically then the children prob will be to. A combination of nature & nurture.

I too have heard that educational attainment of the mother is a hugely important factor in how highly children achieve at school, I can't remember where but not on that thread. I can completely see why that could be true, although as with any rule there will always be plenty of exceptions.

I don't think we can ever achieve a completely level playing field for children in education, because it strongly believe that parents are the first and most important educators.

We can certainly close the gap, but only if all parents are willing to support education, and teach their children to respect their educators, but unfortunately I'm too cynical to believe that will ever happen.

I used to teach. We were told positive parental attitudes are a big influence. The books and parental attainment are just indicators not causal.

Show interest in your childs day - ask basic questions
Support homework completion/reading - establish good study habits

This essay is free to read online

With a sample of 179 children, parents, and teachers, we investigate 3 hypotheses: (1) the higher the educational status of the mother the greater the degree of parental involvement in school activities; (2) the younger the age of the child the greater the degree of parental involvement; and (3) children of parents who are more involved in school activities do better in school than children with parents who are less involved. In an analysis of cross-sectional data, we discover support for the 3 hypotheses. The educational status of the mother is related to the degree of parental involvement in schooling, so that parents with more education are more involved. Parental involvement is related to the child's school performance. Also, parents are more involved in school activities if the child is younger. The mother's educational level and the age of the child are stronger predictors of parental involvement in schooling for boys than for girls. We do not, however, find a direct effect of maternal educational status on school performance independent of parental involvement in school activities. We discuss these findings in light of the relation between families and schools.

Parental involvement is most important.

Other factors contribute and maternal education and access to books help but parental involvement in the children's education is most important.

Enthusiasm for learning is a big one I think, it doesn't matter so much how clever a child (or indeed their mum or dad) is if the parents are saying/implying school is boring/pointless etc. Have seen this happen.

Now I'm on school playground (primary school run) fuzzpig im quite surprised sometimes how parents can easily dismiss school related issues inc homework. no wonder some kids seem to have a 'get out of jail' free cad type attitude by the time they reach GCSE.

An old Oxfam quote is :

When you educate a woman, you educate a nation

MN can get as right on PC woo as it likes about equal opportunities and parental involvement - fact of the matter is - women bring up children. Women are the principle force in a childs life. MN, so it seems absolutely hates the generation gap - MIL or DGranny - but they in most other cultures are the driving force.

familyshare.com/does-a-mothers-education-matter-you-better-believe-it

But surely some people buy into private-ed simly to "outsource" the parental involvement bit. Or does that still count? It seems from threads on here they are pleased for the private school to do extracurricular, prep etc so they don't have to (and obviously they get good results on the whole.)

I have actually thought a lot about something I think ZEnia said (and I rarely agree with her posts!). You can help someone achieve well academically - but its also beyond that that counts. If I look at my cohort at Oxbridge (or even my class at grammar) - the one from the difficult family is still financially insecure. The not-as-bright-as-the-rest-but-works-hard (and obviously still bright compared to the rest of hte population) is a hospital consultant.... There's those with 2:2s that could go into daddys business or those with the good contacts for law firms etc....

Just that its not just about doing well academically. I'm almost tempted to go for the "good enough" model with my kids - see the ex-Academic high flyers who didn't "achieve" thread. So many of us that excelled academically but feel failures in real life.

The following things have been found to be correlated to educational success. Note that I say correlated and not causally correlated.

1. Having a traditional/classsic name
2. Numbers of books in the house
3. Educational attainment of mother
4. Quality pre-school education
5. Married parents
6. Parental engagement in education (e.g. exercising choice in school selection)

Psychologists and neuroscientists I have read (Steven Pinker for instance) say a lot is to do with baby brain development, which thrives on and is largely built for communication and therefore it makes a massive difference how much a child is spoken to/played with from the earliest days.

I think this means the most able children will often have had more concentrated bursts of attention from adults and bigger children since they were babies. The attention can come from anyone, not just parents and it can be in any language, even if the child will go on to be educated in another. There is no need to get the flash-cards out (!) but reading to/with any aged child or simply gurgling while looking a baby in the eyes sets the neurons buzzing, unlike watching TV 'with' them.

I'm a secondary English teacher, and I think the parental aspirations/attitudes to education/books in the house (especially if they don't just stay on the shelf) are all valid factors, as well as basic genetic luck of course, but I think the baby-talk one is at least as important.

Incidentally, I don't think learning to read and write as early as possible is necessary or a marker for later achievement. Being told stories is though, because it's the human interaction that builds brains.

It's down to the child's aspirational drive and motivation in the end, and that will be somewhat innate.

There are factors that can influence this e.g. parental/staff encouragement, cultural activities, positive role-models etc. but in the end, a lot is down to the child and how engaged they are in learning.

I'd like to add, I also have two children who have watched massive amounts of telly over the years and learnt loads from it - I just think the baby-talk factor shouldn't be forgotten.

I think attitude to education is more important than the parent's level of education. My dad has hardly any formal qualifications and mum was unable to go to uni as she fell pregnant (with me!) at 18.
I have a BA degree and 2 post grad degrees, my brother decided uni was not for him but has lots of vocational training and is damn good at his job, my sister has just completed a masters and my youngest sister is about to start a degree.
We were encouraged to do our best and to study what interested us and mum and dad always helped with revision and have listened to us whinge about it all too.
I really believe it was their support, their belief that we can do what we put our minds to and the very relaxed and open relationship we have with them, meaning we can talk about anything openly, that has led to our success and I hope that I can replicate that with my two.

I can only speak personally as I have no formal data to back me up. My parents were both from very poor backgrounds. My mother had practically no education (from a poor Irish family with many siblings) and my father left school at 12 to work in menial jobs to help his family. Our home had few books. (I read comics when I could get them!) However I passed the 11 plus, went to Grammar School (father agreed to buy the uniform) went to Uni, got an MA and PGCE.
My sister trained as a doctor and has been one all her working life. I taught in Primary schools for 26 years. In that time I taught in a very deprived area of Glasgow and saw quite a few bright and high-achieving pupils up to 12 yrs old (Scottish Primary 7) from terrible and hair-raising homes. When I moved across to Edinburgh, conversely I saw many very fortunate, well-supported children from excellent homes who didn't manage to achieve much as they didn't seem to have the brains! But obviously I can't comment on their further achievements at Secondary school etc.
I suppose I could say that one should encourage a child and introduce them to books and read to them, but I reckon they're born with high or low IQs. One can only develop what's there already.