to ask what the most important factors actually are in helping children do well academically

[somewherewest]

According to a poster over on the AIBU thread about grammar schools several essays suggest that "the most deciding factor of any child's academic achievement at school is the educational background of its mother and/or the number of books in the family home".

Is parental education genuinely such a decisive factor? If it is how do we go about trying to promote an educational 'level playing field' for all children?

Well indeed it may be that wealthy parents also engage in other factors that assist educational attainment.

However, there are certain things that can only be accessed by hard cash. Remember we're not talking about intelligence or love of learning, we're talking about actual attainment. For example if you're parents cannot pay for you to attend x university, then you can't go.

Greengrow, are you really Xenia?

You can in Scotland word. My degree hasn't cost me a penny.

But only a teeny tiny percentage of families are rich.

Most families aren't and many raise perfectly able kids.

Re uni err last I heard students pay back student loans when they start earning a decent amount.Saying only rich kids can go to uni is appalling and simply not true.Nobody on my coarse was from a rich family ditto my dh's.

Yes but that is quite limiting educationally.

The fact that tertiary education is so expensive in the rest of the UK is now a real issue in educational attainment.

I think that one of the very best ways to improve matters would be to make undergraduate degrees free or at the very least to ensure that the loans available are adequate. The current situation where the loans don't cover accommodation let alone living expenses is so wrong!

I don't disagree word but there's always the option of working alongside a degree. I do it, all my friends did it 20 odd years ago before degree funding. All from working class backgrounds with no parental help. Too many students leaving uni completely unequipped for the world of work.
I do feel I should mention that the most successful people I know, financially, speaking left school with no qualifications but are self made. Academia is not for everyone and it's perfectly possible to be successful and happy without ever setting foot in a university.

That said, apparently Steve Jobs would not allow his DC access to technology. Not even the odd fiddle on an iPad

wow thats interesting!

I wonder if any of this is just down to goals no matter how rich or poor or educated?

A poor family with low education, but goals for the dc, will do better than one without goals?

richer people may be richer because they simply had a goal and gone for it...rather than ambling along?

To answer the post: I'd say being interested in the DCs' schooling without being oppressive and having access to good schools. Trying to see that the lazier ones do enough work and that the hard workers don't overdo it. Obviously a certain level of aptitude is required, or academic achievement can't happen.

The evidence is that maternal level of education is the biggest correlating factor with childrens academic success. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions to this but that is on average the factor that is most prominent. It makes TOTAL sense. Genetics play a big part; clever parents clever chidlren. A well educated mother is probably interested in helping their child etc etc. Thats not to say that all well educated parents help thier children and also its not to say that uneducated parents are not clever. There are millions of exceptions to these generalisations. However, on average this is the biggest correlator.As parents, we can't change our genes but we can show interest and help our children. However, all other things being equal , a very intelligent mother who helps her child is on average going to have a child that does better than an unintelligent one ( who may or may not be educated).Attitude et c is all important but when combined with the factor of high maternal education then that child will most likely ( on average ) come out top. Its like musical parents are more likely on average to produce musical children and they are more likely to be interested in music and help their children with it. there are again loads of exceptions that people like to quote but the stats and common sense support the statement!

Er.... also quality of the school/teachers must be a factor!!

I think this is assuming good teaching and sympathetic school enviroment, Party

Beyond repair, it's also about having the tools, knowledge and contacts to achieve those goals.
E.g being able to stay at home rent free whilst you study/set up a business. Being able to use an outbuilding for a business, knowing someone who does it already who can talk you through it.
Also, a richer family may stop you making a big financial fuck up causing future problems - big debt /bankruptcy.

It's about being taught how to get to where you want to be and achieve your goal

blackwings of course it can be done, but increasingly it isn't being done.

Educational attainment is becoming inextricably linked to wealth. It's not right , but the juggernaut has set off

I suppose in a way, achieving more because your parents are rich is no more unfair than achieving more because your mother is educated . Both are beyond a child's control . But it dioes seem more brutal somehow,

I think educational attainment has always been linked to wealth. The friends I speak of and indeed myself are the exception rather than the rule. I was just trying to make the point that if you're intelligent or driven, money or lack if it doesn't have to stand in your way, you just have to work harder.
No it's not 'right' but that's the rich/poor divide for you, can't see that changing any time soon.
Maybe the powers that be will follow Scotland's lead regards higher education, I do hope so.

When I went to university in Ireland (1999-2003) there were no fees. I don't have the stats to hand but understand free fees had very little impact on Irish social mobility - in fact it was criticised as effectively a state hand out to middle class families who would've afforded university anyway.

Id like to see studies into poor but stable and happy home lives compared to all the rest

That would be DH and BIL's background. Both went to Oxbridge despite coming from a pretty low income background. In their case the boosting factors seem to have been educated engaged parents and happening to live in an area with good state schools. And having enough income to put reasonably decent food on the table (although their housing was pretty cramped and substandard).

Also I reckon these studies are out of date. If I think of my female colleagues - many of whom have 3 degrees and several languages - they by and large put their children in full time nursery from a very young age and also wrap-around after school clubs etc.

The idea of a very educated mother helping to raise you at home spending lots of time talking things through is fantastic, but surely a paradox. In the last few decades almost all very educated women defer care of their children to very uneducated women.

I'm not judging, I'm just saying the fantasy of a stupendously clever scientist mum who takes you round the woods explaining how all the trees make leaves etc. hardly ever practically happens.

I know lots of v.educated women that have decided to SAHM for the early years or have been v pt. I guess its the circles you move in. I don't know any that are fulltime (again, I probably wouldn't as I wouldn't see them at the school gate/they may well not live in our area!)

I think a reasonably well educated person are better qualified to care for their children than the very uneducated women you mention partyskirt
I am not terrifically well educated but have a degree, some masters level points/quals and a PgCE and H.ed to give a specialised tailor made education to our dd.
There are some very well educated and some barely educated parents who do this too.

I know a fair number of highly qualified, well educated mothers and I struggle to think of more than a couple who work FT. Most fit work around their DC to some extent while outsourcing some of the drudgery that comes with parenthood to nurseries. I am not sure if I know any fathers who work PT, so the input of mothers seems likely to be more significant still.

Very few mums here work FT, many of the dad's commute so sharing child care in the week is very difficult.

This might change as we now have wrap round clubs at school, but it didn't use to be the case.

I guess many of us choose not to live in London (or other cities where nice housing is very expensive) so we can live without two really high salaries.

Also, as I say, jobs aren't on our rural doorstep. Both parents can't commute without a nanny or, as I suspect one mum does, relying very heavily on grandparents.

I myself work part time -- but I wasn't talking about my friends I was talking about my colleagues, who are a) the most educated people I know and b) never see their kids. But I have friends and mum friends who are educated and do look after the kids. Those kids are turning out v well. And Pico good point.

Ok ok ok - my post was devil's advocatey!

I am surrounded by a lot of people who almost never see their kids, and am interested in the issues around it (on the topic of this post), i.e. how do the kids benefit from having two super-intelligent rich (ish) parents who know about nutrition etc. if they never see them.

This article about recent research does back up income / wealth being a major factor now
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11114469/Schools-not-to-blame-for-poor-grades-in-deprived-areas.html

I haven't dug out the research so I can't say if this is a fair summary.

People mention children of immigrants doing well. DH is an immigrant from North Africa and like a large number of his friends he is well educated (used to be a teacher). Another factor which may have an influence is that a fair number of children of immigrant families will be at least bilingual and that may well have a positive impact on their educational attainment.
www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/bilingualism-is-good-for-learning