to ask what the most important factors actually are in helping children do well academically

[somewherewest]

According to a poster over on the AIBU thread about grammar schools several essays suggest that "the most deciding factor of any child's academic achievement at school is the educational background of its mother and/or the number of books in the family home".

Is parental education genuinely such a decisive factor? If it is how do we go about trying to promote an educational 'level playing field' for all children?

The thing about private education is that even if it buys you better grades, it's not onaverage a very good investment, financially speaking. A recent study found that the fees typically paid by parents are not recouped in terms of the child's additional lifetime earnings.

Education shouldn't solely be about earning potential but on average it does not seem private schools are a sound investment. No doubt the super-elite schools are a different kettle of fish but I'm not weeping into my hanky because we can't afford school fees

I had an excellent education, most of it in independent schools. I have no doubt that I would have been able to get my current job without that kind of spending on my education and from that perspective the fees will never be recouped. I doubt that I would have enjoyed my education as much if I hadn't been to an outstanding school and I think that it was worth it for that. Sadly we probably won't be sending our DC to similar schools for various reasons, but I'm not too worried about it from an attainment perspective.

I think attitude to learning counts for a lot. I've known weak kids graft away and make good progress against what was predicted for them, and those with high potential waste it because they knew that their role in life was going to be in daddy's company, so GCSEs along the way didn't matter. Teaching is tough in places like pit towns where the general standard of education was low because you'd do alright down the pit anyway. Its very hard to alter generations of a culture of educational apathy, and we live in a world where it does matter and your destiny does lie in certficates and letters after your name.

Ambition helps. It doesn't matter whether its the right one, but having an aim gets you that foothold to then have the opportunities to givecyou the choice later. Independence, and a resilience or confidence against mistakes also helps. So many give up on the first error because they can't handle getting it wrong, even though it's potentially a very powerful learning tool.

Parents who are successful have the natural advantage of being able to pass on those tools, but its not a monopoly. That's where time and attention are so powerful.

I doubt that I would have enjoyed my education as much if I hadn't been to an outstanding school and I think that it was worth it for that.

It's difficult to know how much you would have enjoyed your education at another school, isn't it? I went to a state comprehensive, but I loved my time at school. I also realised at university and during my gap year that I had had just as many, if not more, enriching and life-enhancing opportunities at my state comp as many of my friends had had at some of the most expensive private schools. Reflecting on my own experience and that of close friends, I'm not at all convinced that private education is worth it.

As others have said, parental attitudes and home environment are probably the biggest factors.

concernedabouttheboy return on 'investment' in the form of additional earnings is not why most people I know are paying for school fees.

Back in the dark ages about twenty years ago when I did research into this subject with Tim Brighouse, and David Jesson (among others) we did indeed find that the factor of greatest impact was the educational level of the mother.
I think, however, that this has changed somewhat over the intervening years, as the number of undergraduates has risen, and the standard of undergraduate education diminished.
The next biggest factor was poverty, then ethnicity (and this is linked to the culture children are raised in, and the varying expectations different cultures have of education).

Interestingly, Jesson's recent work suggests that able children in comprehensive schools achieve more highly when there are larger numbers of able pupils in those schools.

So we're discussing what factors influence and how to help children to succeed academically, yet judgement is often (IRL and on MN) passed on those deemed to be doing too much and are then labelled pushy Can someone just please point out where the line is for me??

If all these parental influences cannot be replicated by schools, surely that means the "playing field" cannot be levelled but only smoothed slightly. So perhaps we could stop lambasting parents who are engaged in their DC's education - they are not the direct cause of the disinterest of unengaged parents and doesn't actually help those parents to become more involved (or their kids to do better).

I think there is a difference between being interested, involved and supportive and being pushy. Excess pushiness is likely to have a negative impact on intrinsic motivation, in my view.

I heard that babies that are interacted with more develop language skills faster which leads them to be more successful later in life as well. So keep talking to your baby.

So we're discussing what factors influence and how to help children to succeed academically, yet judgement is often (IRL and on MN) passed on those deemed to be doing too much and are then labelled pushy Can someone just please point out where the line is for me??

If someone calls me pushy, I will be a happy mamma. I will absolutely be pushing DD to do her very best and build a good work ethic. I'll be getting on her case about homework, practicing her sports/instrument/extra curricular. I won't be doing her projects for her, but I'll be expecting her to go above and beyond and expect her to put in that extra effort.

I don't care if she's getting A's or C's, but she better be working her ass off for those grades and not slacking.

My biggest worry is that she'll be "too smart" and coast in school, and I'll have to find ways outside school to challenge her so I can teach her perseverance and "grit".

I spent a lot of time with a close friend when dd was a baby, and a few years later, she told me how surprised she had been at how much I spoke to dd in those early days. She had not talked very much to her own (older) child in the early years, and she found my constant chatting a bit odd, as she felt the baby was obviously too young to understand.

She commented on this later in the context of telling me how advanced dd's language skills were, and she felt that my endless commentaries and inane chatting must have been a factor in that.

It wasn't something I ever did consciously, but I did talk to dd a lot when she was a baby, it just felt natural to talk to her all the time. We still talk a lot. And her language skills are very advanced for her age, so maybe all my babble did help!

Absolutely - talk to them.

I do think sending them to very academic day schools does tend to mean they will earn more than in other types of schools - some surveys are of private schools in general and plenty of those other than fees have a very comprehensive intake and are full of not very bright children - avoid those ones and pay for top 50 schools and the children on the whole tend to do better.

There's a multitude of factors at work there, Greengrow. You must see that! If a family is in the small minority of parents that can afford a top 50 school you are already passing on a certain amount of privilidge and other factors aside from the choice of school.

(And yes ,if we were earning in that bracket we probably would.)

You need supportive parents more than anything. My husband and I do everything we can to ensure our child has a good education and achieves well academically.
Neither of us went to university but have done well for ourselves. I think us not having a good education is what pushes us with our daughters education to make sure she has what we didn't. So far it seems to be working.

greengrow, I think you're confusing correlation with causation. Children who go to elite schools may well earn more on average, but you'd be a fool to think that this is simply because of their schooling.

buy all the exam books you can and teach your child how to play the game, ie know how to answer the questions. you can know lots of stuff but if you don't know what they want you to know, you won't be able to jump through the hurdles they have put up. forget having any ideas of your own

Quite - the top schools are extremely academically selective (top 5-10% of 11+ passes), so they are taking very able children to start with. All we're really saying is academically able children who go to schools with other academically able children get good exam results, and I dont think anyone is disputing that there's a correlation between academic qualifications and earnings.

If I look at my friends who are very successful (in the earnings sense), there are a huge mix of backgrounds. Most of them had one clear positive factor (either come from a high income family and went to very good school or had engaged parents but didnt go to a great school) but many only had one of the two and made it anyway. I have a few friends from high income backgrounds whose parents were total flakes- maybe boarding school saved them. Who knows?

oh and once you've done all you the jumping you can then spend the rest of your life actually enjoying learning.

Alongside talking to your children one of the key factors in developing a wide vocabulary is allowing them to talk. One of the reasons kids ask the same question over and over again is because they are practicing the language of questioning and learning the many different ways of answering. Children who are allowed to talk and who are listened to start school in a better position.

The middle-class pushiness translates into children who have never really entertained the possibility that they won't succeed. A peculiar brand of confidence.

Lovely But you know, going into something with a positive frame of mind is half the battle won. I have 2 DC- one who approaches everything new assuming he/she can do it, and one who goes into everything assuming he/she can't. Positive attitude does pay off.

I should add, providing it's combined with tenacity and emotional resilience

I agree, aggressive.

The current research (though it is quite old) shows that the maternal education is the most important factor, closely followed by the family's wealth.

There is new research under way at the university where I work, and early indications seem to be, perhaps unsurprisingly, that wealth is now the most important factor.

Other factors of importance include area where the child lives and the educational attainment of both parents (presumably fathers are more involved since the last bit of research and there is less obviously a primary carer in most families).

It will be very interesting when it comes out, I think.

I think parental education is a huge factor. My DM can hardly read, ask her a question and you will get a wrong answer. She couldn't listen to me read, or help me spell. The only thing she taught me was rude poems and songs?

She doesn't know how to clean, or cook or sew. She couldn't budget, didn't understand politics.

It was very hard to be a child with a million questions and no answers. Wish we had google.

Saving to read later