To ask all Scottish MNrs to work together 2

[siiiiiiiiigh]

Sorry, filled the last thread with this, thought I'd better be part of Team Scottish MN and work together for those of us on the old thread...

Here's Armando's thoughts. I vote him in for everything.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever

So it was never just about economics or your personal security for you stat I remember, but out of your concern for the poor. What have you done since the vote then to help the poor ?

I thought it would be close - only a percentage point or two in it - that is what the polls were suggesting to me. I think that a 10% difference between the two is pretty convincing! and trying to downplay it smacks of sour grapes. I can promise you, I wouldn't have been doing this if the vote had been the other way round.

Almost half a million people from a vote of 3.6 million people is pretty convincing....

And yes, my house price is ok - glad that makes you happy

10.6% actually SDT

Because the Yes campaign repeatedly refused to acknowledge the damage to the economy an independence vote was having, let alone what would have happened if that side had seen the majority share a week ago. The flood of money out of Scotland would have turned into a deluge, impacting on job security and the amount of money available to assist those who needed it. And why complain about no Barnett formula? You wouldn't have had that in an independent Scotland anyway and all that vast oil you are now claiming was announced over a year ago and discussed earlier on the thread. Not to mention the fact that much of it remains prohibitively expensive to extract and it would go against all the green principles so vaunted by the Yes campaign to go down the shale route.

As for the air strikes well slow clap to the SMPs not voting for it. What a show that was seeing as they must have known it would go through no matter what so they could vote no to impress the electorate back home. You wouldn't even have the option of setting off in a dinghy armed with some paper aeroplanes on the off chance of visually distracting an enemy if independence had happened.

Obviously it's not something tho be happy about, but I'm actually comfortable with the decision to contribute to the air strikes. Needs to be done.

Rejected independance by a majority is factual. I wouldn't agree that it was convincing. would a 55% yes vote have been convincing? And remember, not everyone voted. I think yes only got 37/38% of the electorate.

1- Cameron and Miliband have backtracked and sidetracked and argued on extra powers for Scotland , despite a public pledge that broke purdah rules that affected the outcome yes, they are trying to link other issues to the question and score political points. But Lord Smith is starting work, discussions are going to take place. Clearly consideration needs to be given to the rest of the UK in this, as it impacts on all of us. I'd prefer they took their time and got it right, done people seem to think constitutional change happens in hours.

2- the oil that was going to run out in 20 years is now gonna last 120 years, the Clair field alone will produce 120k barrels a day I don't recall 20 years as a forecast, presumably that was worst-case scenario. Yes, it looks like improvements may be possible for extraction. Doubtless the companies will seek to write costs off against tax, and I suspect 120 years is still very optimistic.

3- the NHS that was perfectly fine 7 days ago according to labour is now being privatised Labour were politicking at their conference. Or are you referring to the revelations of the Scottish Government sending yet more NHS money to the private sector?

4- plans for the Barnett formula to be scrapped depending on what UK wide devolution settlement we end up with, Barnett may well need to go. It might end up being a hindrance otherwise,

5- spending to be cut in Scotland spending to be cut everywhere. We are in quite a lot of debt.

6- Fracking given the green light in Scotland....yippee! I thought this was already approved pre-referendum? We can still lobby to have franking as a devolved issue.

And number 7 best of all we get to follow America into another illegal war!! Happy days! I don't recall anyone saying air strikes would be illegal, the consensus seemed to be this is legal.

You were definitely right when they said we were better together . Bloody brilliant , you are disgusting. But hey, happy that your house price is ok ( until it gets franked under) and the markets didn't wobble. disgusting? Deee you are really annoying me now. We voted. It was No. Let's get on with it.

So it was never just about economics or your personal security for you stat I remember, but out of your concern for the poor. What have you done since the vote then to help the poor ?

Well in the entire week that has passed, I've been busy working on the launch of a new childcare service which will fill a huge gap in the area which has been preventing people who want to from working so I'd say that counts. It'll also employ several people including some young apprentices, giving them a chance of a career. Oh and I've volunteered to help out with an organisation that provides training to adult learners.

Personally I feel averting a financial crisis has done more to help the poor than a few bags of food. Apart from that I continue to support the food bank in my Mum's home town that we supported before it became the fashionable thing to do.

Tsk tsk tsk, Statistically - don't you realise you are supposed to have spent the week lounging around on all your piles of money, looted from the poor and given to the rich?

It is no fun for deeedeee if you've actually done something significant for the poor.

Yes, but apart from that Statistically, what have you done to help the poor?

Oh, I missed the point about breaking purdah. I believe technically it didn't (although I'll concede it was crassly done) as it wasn't a Government announcement. In any case, a pledge for more powers was signed way back in the summer (June I think). It was re-stated just before the vote, and Gordon Brown proposed a timetable.

room for a little one? Can we swap the bench for a sofa?

'Course we can!

If only we had done as we were supposed to and voted Yes. Things would have been so much simpler, dammit.

Wow, that's such a positive attitude! Aren't you scared of changing from a bench to a sofa?

The problem this discussion is that you ( the collective you) and I are operating in totally different contexts. Ofcourse everything I believe to you is crap and vice versa. It makes me want to vomit reading your words, I must only ever come and read your threads out of some sort of masochism. I'm always struck by just how little point there is arguing with you because you all speak an entirely different language.

You are not the majority. I think there's maybe 40% of people like you and then 15% of people who were scared ( with the weight if the establishment and media against them, lied to ( the vow) , misinformed ( you'll lose your pension!) or uninformed ( if you don't know , vote no) and are now starting to regret their vote. Like my niece, sister in law and parents in law.

The rest of us are mobilising with the people you tricked and scared, and we won't go away. The SNP and the Greens are the largest political parties in Scotland now. Scotland has changed forever .

Stat, all sounds like an election pledge. who do you vote for ?

No - because the Scottish people have decided to move from the bench to the sofa, as opposed to being bullied into it by WM with all their bluff and bluster.

I'm not going away either Deee I'll campaign against pro-independence parties at forthcoming elections. Yes aren't the only people keeping the politically engaged. There's a lot of people who campaigned for No who are totally up for doing it again if need be.

But yes, we don't seem to speak the same language! Are you interested in moving on as One Scotland? Or do you just want to continue fighting for independence no matter what?

Rejected independance by a majority is factual. I wouldn't agree that it was convincing. would a 55% yes vote have been convincing? And remember, not everyone voted. I think yes only got 37/38% of the electorate.

The SNP got into power in 2011 based on 44.04% of a 50% turnout - and that was considered sufficient to take us into the referendum process.

Excuse me? are you calling me a liar?

Sorry - first paragraph is a quote - I didn't make that clear.

If we're talking lies, what about Yes campaigners telling people they will need to pay to visit their GP? Claiming that they will get everything they want in negotiations? Making it all about the Tories whilst claiming it isn't about the SNP, then joining the SNP in large numbers?

And what the fuck happened to respecting the result, and the will of the people?