To start a thread inspired by, but not about, indyref?

[StatisticallyChallenged]

In the run up to the Scottish Independence Referendum, we had some fabulous, spirited, enlightening and enthusiastic debates on this board. I know I learned a lot from talking with so many politically aware people, and a few people have suggested that we start a thread to try and continue some of the best parts of the discussions.

So this is a thread for us to discuss what we feel is wrong with our country, some possible solutions and how we can do something about it. It's not a thread for debating independence, justifying our votes or for recriminations and anger; more somewhere to chat about some of the underlying issues such as our constitution/political structure, welfare, social justice and equality which concerned people on both sides of the independence debate. I'm also not proposing this as an exclusively Scottish debate although I suspect it will be dominated by us, as many of these are UK-wide issues.

So, what needs to change? How can we make our individual countries and union better?

Phaedra, I am sorry you even feel you have to apologise for that. But, I do see where you're coming from. There is no way on God's earth I could even think of saying to some members of my family that I think of myself as British first and Scottish second. They would lynch me. I have been called a traitor to my country in the past, just for saying I am extremely proud to be British.

Unitarian, maybe you're right and that is the beauty of it.

Nobody should have to apologise for how they identify themselves.

Any thoughts on the plans to increase min wage? I think Tories aiming for £7, Labour for £8, Greens saying £10

I think if it was within a reasonable timetable after the GE, you could see £8 as being an attractive policy, but 2020? Inflation will have likely wiped out any benefit by the time we get there. £10 seems more of a living wage. I don't know enough about the impact a living wage would genuinely have on businesses & how much is spin to allow the suppression of wages for the sake of maximising profit/dividend return. I don't think we'll ever get a living wage, & I think £8 by 2020 isn't a show stopping policy that'll persuade people to vote labour in their droves.

Min wage is about to go up to £6.50. If you assumed inflation of 3% per year (target is 2%) then that would be £7.76 by 2020. At 2% it would be £7.32. Just for context. £10 per hour by 2020 would mean rising by 7.5% per year from now.

increasing the minimum wage is quite a neat move to boost demand in the economy. People on low wages spend a higher proportion on basic goods and services (as opposed to stuffing it all in a pension fund or luxury items). Some employers hate it, I know, but ultimately it will get passed on to the end consumer by way of higher prices (if not absorbed) so it is generally a good thing.

Leaving aside the moral issue of what should be a minimum or living wage in any case

On the question of identity, I would now always consider myself British. I might have said English in the past but that is not even technically correct (I was born overseas) and have spent a long time living outside the UK. And my heritage is mixed Irish, Scots, English and others. I think that may have been why I become so sensitive about the issue during the vote. I felt my identity was under threat somehow!

DH (born and raised and lived all his life in Scotland, both parents English) has just said he is 'not-English' when asked whether he was more Scottish or more British ; then said 'British'. I think the IndyRef has made him consider his nationality more like others have said.

Minimum wage: it clearly needs to go up, but no idea by how much or how to determine what a living wage is . One of the many things I am NOT is an economist…

Identity wise, all this Scottish nationalism stuff has made me feel quite confused. I think I live in the country Scotland, UK. When I was growing up I think I would have identified as Scottish then British. But now I definitely feel more British. I also, oddly enough, feel a tiny bit English - I lived there for 3 years and married an Englishman. I think this is partly me feeling very defensive about being British and my connections to my husband's family and my son's dual heritage (and now my sister lives in England too) with all the referendum and anti-English stuff BS.

Evening all :)

OOAOML how are things at home now?

In the news today they were talking about how it would be too difficult for England to have devolved matters. They were using a high speed rail link to Glasgow as an example - they were saying, 'So if England was devolved* who would pay for it?'. I keep hearing things like this. My questions/thoughts are this... Who would pay for it NOW? Would this be considered as per capita spending on people in England? Why would it make any difference to how much Scotland pays towards it whether it's coming out of England's bulk or the UK's bulk - either it's something Scotland should be paying for or not? iyswim??

Why are they saying it would be too hard to have things that only the MP's who represent England vote on? Why are they saying things are too often linked and cover all 4 countries? All the other 3 have issues/votes/spending that is just about them - why not England? Why do we have to have decisions made for us by everyone, yet the others get to make their own decisions?

• England being 'devolved sounds wrong, but I can't think of a better way of putting it right now - too tired and not just a little bit fed up.

OOAOML how are things at home now?

Thanks Chipping we're working things through now things are less tense. Getting on much better - had some good talks, sorting some stuff out.

OO that's good that you are talking :) I hope you can find a way to be happy together, but if not part on good terms.

Think we'll get there - although not if he makes a habit of switching off the router which he did just now not realising that the iPad uses wifi

Seriously, I think we'll be fine. Unless Jim Sillars declares independence, or concerns over another referendum move my job south anyway. But we're getting on much better. And I'm relieved not to be out so much, although still really tired.

OO Why did he turn the router off? Was it playing up or is he one of these weirdos people who still turn it off at night? I need to know before I decide if you should LTB or not

I'm glad you think you'll be fine.

I bet you are relieved not to be out so much - you did a LOT!! It's hardly surprising you are still tired

One of those people who turn it off. He gave me a bemused look when I protested and said "I thought it was wifi?". I was most gentle in the way I challenged him as to how he thinks wifi works

Then you have no choice LTB

Who the fuckity fuck still turns their router off at night

I was most gentle in the way I challenged him as to how he thinks wifi works

You are too kind!

So we stay together despite deep political differences, but split up over switching off the router? Is that unreasonable behaviour or irreconcilable differences?

I hate the idea of arguing who is going to pay for infrastructure projects that straddle different parts of the UK.

This is going to turn really bad for us all if we let it.

I said above that my locality has crap broadband, and village schools closing. There is a food bank in the nearest town. The villages are dying because property is snapped up to be let as holiday homes. Tradespeople can't afford to buy and the young are heading for the cities because most of the jobs here are seasonal in tourism.
I'm describing a place in England, not Scotland.

So let's please address the unfairness across the UK. No single region has a monopoly on that, surely.
I think a lot of the appeal of the Yes campaign was the heady prospect of being able to 'make' a country, build a utopia. Could we take a wider view and re-make the UK without throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

I would like to know the answer to this question:
Scotland has chosen to make university tuition free. Why can't we?
Presumably there is a similar pot of money per head of population so why do students in other parts of the UK have to rack up a debt of £9500 a year?

Actually that question about university fees sort of goes to my anxiety about this creeping xenophobia about English votes on English matters.

I would welcome a debate in the Westminster Parliament on university fees and it would be informed by the experience of the Scots MPs who can speak authoritatively on how free tuition can work, or not, as the case may be.

That's just one example of where knowledge of different approaches could be highly informative and possibly transformational.

What a bunch of sorry excuses this lot are. How do countries like the US and Canada manage, not to mention whole swathes of Europe who have interconnecting train lines in different countries and somehow still figure it out! It doesn't require much imagination to find a solution for the national things that need doing.

I said this on another thread but I wouldn't be sorry to see a clean sweep of them and we start again. I think part of the problem is that out system is self serving and the last thing they want is change, no matter that the electorate is demanding it.

As for identity I asked originally because I have the impression that there has been such a great focus on Scottishness over the years at the expense of Britishness. It seems to me anyway. I am 100% British but I was born and bought up overseas and I am also a mongrel in terms of heritage.

Sorry our not out

unitatian I am no expert on uni fees but I believe they cut a huge number of places to make it free. Well free to everyone in the EU aside from rUK.

We do also have higher overall spending per head in Scotland. I seem to remember that education wasn't much higher -it might even have been lower. Which suggests that we are spending less money on other parts. It could also be related to the way English tuition fees are funded -I'll need to look in to it but for most students it's a loan and those paying the higher fees haven't started to repay the loan yet. So at the moment someone, presumably the government, is still funding the unis? I'll try to find out

We have free uni places for Scottish students, but we have a lot fewer college places than we used to have. Scottish Government decide how to spend the funding they have - and free things have to be paid for by cutting elsewhere. Not saying I disagree with some of the things that are free - just that I think we need a much more open debate on them.

They have the laughable Jonathan Redwood on Breakfast. Imo they are focusing far too much on the West Lothian question and not enough on more important things about what devolution will look like across the UK!

Just checked, spending on Education per capita is (roughly!) £1436 in Scotland, £1364 in UK as a whole.

They are definitely focusing too much on the WL question when the survey results indicate that it's only the main priority for a pretty low proportion of the population. I agree it should be resolved, but how about some bigger issues too? Both parties seem to be a bit of a damp squib with few meaningful policies really. They're too close together - it's probably a part of why UKIP are flourishing.