To start a thread inspired by, but not about, indyref?

[StatisticallyChallenged]

In the run up to the Scottish Independence Referendum, we had some fabulous, spirited, enlightening and enthusiastic debates on this board. I know I learned a lot from talking with so many politically aware people, and a few people have suggested that we start a thread to try and continue some of the best parts of the discussions.

So this is a thread for us to discuss what we feel is wrong with our country, some possible solutions and how we can do something about it. It's not a thread for debating independence, justifying our votes or for recriminations and anger; more somewhere to chat about some of the underlying issues such as our constitution/political structure, welfare, social justice and equality which concerned people on both sides of the independence debate. I'm also not proposing this as an exclusively Scottish debate although I suspect it will be dominated by us, as many of these are UK-wide issues.

So, what needs to change? How can we make our individual countries and union better?

That would confuse Edinburgh council - given that their response to a rising birth rate was to close schools, god knows what they would do if there was mass housebuilding!

If there was mass house building, maybe they could put contraceptives in the drinking water?

The problem with housing development, in England in any case, is that it is nearly all delivered by private developers. Even where there are partnership arrangements with local authorities, ie they provide the land, the developers will provide the construction finance and procure planning consent etc. And a large amount of affordable housing is provided, either directly or indirectly, by private developers. The recession was a perfect excuse for developers to reduce the amount of affordable housing on developments, as they were of course not making the same profits as they would have been.

And lots of developers prefer bigger sites, if they can bring them forward, due to economies of scale.

I think what needs to happen is more freedom for local authorities to invest themselves in housing, where they would sell part , to fund the social housing, or simply for low cost rent. I don't really know about the borrowing rules but I think the restrictions on them is a large part of the problem.

There would need to be some changes to make it work, some re-prioritisation or funding from central government possibly. It just feels like a very significant problem to me.

it is a massive problem. And the only people who benefit are the developers, who are doing very nicely thank you, and the associated industries and advisers.

There are actually some developers with a social conscience, but there aren't enough of them.

Of course, the other problem is getting planning consents granted. Lots of people hate any kind of development, especially in rural areas.

Urban regeneration is more tricky though, as costs tend to be higher.

Yup. There are some decent private landlords out there - but there are also some complete gits!

I think the problem is a lot of politicians think if you are on a low income, it's because you haven't tried hard enough. Now, that's true sometimes, sure. But often it's not. And there will always be people earning minimum wage or thereabouts - you can be in childcare for years and not get far above it if you don't want to do a degree level qualification to become a manager. People on a low income still deserve a reasonable standard of living - and that includes secure accommodation.

if you are on a low income, it's because you haven't tried hard enough - ooh, 'the hard working families', innit?
Another soundbite I detest.

Completely agree SC. And there is absolutely no reason for anyone to be homeless in this country either. Or stuck in sodding B&B accommodation. The lack of a collective will to solve it can get me quite wound up!

Oh, god save us from the "hardworking families" rhetoric. It's nauseating.

I suppose it's the desire to oversimplify - put people in nice, neat boxes. It doesn't work

Apologies if this has already been raised (I haven't RTFT because I'm very knackered!, but in response to the initial question of improvements we'd like to see, I love the idea of a citizen's income:

www.citizensincome.org/

Personally I think it would help dissipate a lot of the "bad feeling" and negative press surrounding being on benefits etc. It also seems to be more efficient and cost-effective, so...

Also proportional representation rather than FPTP!

And, on the topic of landlords (this may also have been raised), a system that protects long-term tenants. The option of two, three, five year minimum contracts would be nice. My rented flat is my home and I would be heartbroken to be given notice on it with only a couple of months to get packed up.

A lot of affordable housing can be effectively provided by housing trusts or associations. They are not-for-profit organisations that use the rents to help fund the next project.
The local authority assists by identifying suitable sites and securing planning permission.

The difficulty seems to lie in them finding the initial funding to buy land and build on it so seed capital is needed and this was being government funded.
As far as rural areas were concerned this seemed to dry up quite abruptly about 4 years ago. A project here was halted just as it got the green light round about the time the Localism Bill was being mooted. Oh yes, the slogan was The Big Society.......all about communities..........Remember that?

I was actually thinking about citizens income the other day. I'm not sure, need to ponder some more. But I was also wondering about a significantly increased "child benefit" that would do away with child tax credits etc - so it could be used either for childcare or to support a parent choosing to stay at home. Would still need some level of means testing but probably much higher and much simpler than the current approach. If they ever get it working the Universal Credit system might actually be useful for simplifying benefits.

unitarian the start up funding is a biggy. I think it could come from central govt (whether Scotland or WM), but I do think (from work based knowledge) that there is probably something possible re getting big companies to invest if it's structured properly. Possibly a combination of both. Private sector investment doesn't have to be a disaster, it's just that half the time we sign up to agreements which are hugely weighted in favour of the private company.

The knock on effects would be pretty good too:
-lower housing benefit bill
-reduce in work poverty (lower outgoings for rent and also probably for bills compared to lots of poor quality private rentals)
-could be more "green"
-job creation - trades/building jobs
-cool the housing market a bit
-probably reduce some of the immigration fears if people have secure long term homes =reduce UKIP votes!

I'm not opposed to private funding, just suspicious of it!

Same here! It's quite common in other countries for eg pension funds to invest in infrastructure. Quite sensible in some ways! I'd prefer public

I think citizen's income and Statistically's increased Child Benefit one are interesting.

I think (but haven't checked) that the Scottish Gov is getting some prudential borrowing powers as part of Calman. If not, then they should.

Councils can use these to do things like house building - and I think the Scottish gov should be able to do the same. Basically like having a mortgage or something to buy the land and develop it, funded by the rental income and/or by selling some off as affordable housing.

Citizen's income should help (or if we did a children's one, then I think we should also do a carer's one) carers.

There are some limited borrowing powers coming from the Scotland Act 2012 - they're not huge and there are restrictions.
Agreed re carers income - I was only thinking about the children's as I caught the labour party conference chat about child benefit and that got my brain going! Carers save the country billions.

I would like to also see much more support for working families to return to work part time or full time. I would also like to see the announcement of pregnancy etc much more stringently enforced then it currently is. I have suffered bias as a pregnant woman and you continually hear about it on threads and in rl. We still have an enormous hangup about it as a country and are miles behind most of the EU nations. It's not just a women's rights issue per se as men should also be able to take paternity leave in a Swedish style rather than what is currently on offer.

I was just thinking about the family housing thing and enabling women and men to return to work or study easily. It is about providing more options rather than one or two. Not impressed with what I have seen so far from the politicians although there was something for dads that came out a while ago wasn't there? In which case I am behind the times!

Hi all

Back again, I just needed a couple of days off of posting about it.

I've been watching the bits of the Labour Party Conference, listening to people on the radio & watching 'Scottish Parliament'.

I have to say Scottish Parliament is pretty bloody civilised! Impressive. Just as much shit spouted mind you Your MP's are younger and on the whole are more 'real'.

MUTE button has been hit quite a bit yes Sandra White I'm looking at YOU

Anyway, just going to catch up on the thread

OO It's unreasonable behaviour, without a doubt!!

I would welcome a debate in the Westminster Parliament on university fees and it would be informed by the experience of the Scots MPs who can speak authoritatively on how free tuition can work, or not, as the case may be. That's just one example of where knowledge of different approaches could be highly informative and possibly transformational

The issue I have with it is that in Scotland the Mps voted for fees to be cut, but the Scottish MP's voted against the cuts in the UK. It was MPs OUTSIDE of England that tipped the vote to England not cutting fees! Why should that be allowed?

(Whether fee cutting was right or wrong is not my point, but that MP's from outside of England shouldn't be able to vote on things that only affect England - S, W & NI make their own decisions, why shouldn't we?)

I had never heard of the concept of a Citizen's Income - thank you for the link; I shall educate myself and ponder it a bit.

I agree on the devolution of power re stuff that only affects one region should only be voted on that regions MPs. Sorry, I am not very articulate - going to bed. It's been a long day.

Night PD

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