Wibu to take ds to a&e?

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Ds 3yo has a sudden temp of 38.9° having gone up from 38.7° at 6 pm, calpol hasn't helped any and he isn't fully waking up but he's been throwing up while half awake and sort of choking on it. He's really pale and hot to touch, shivery but not clammy.

Phoned nhs24 and they said to monitor him over night and arrange an out of hours visit to hospital tomorrow. But he's not waking up properly to be sick, I'm petrified he's going to choke and kill himself if I fall asleep and his temp is climbing.

Wibu to take him to a&e even though the nhs24 doctor person said not to? His not being able to wake properly is scaring me, he's never had so much as d&v before, apart from colds he's always very healthy so i might be over reacting?

LEM, I very much doubt that the advice for a barely rousable child to stay at home overnight came from a doctor, and would agree that it was likely a nurse or call handler following a protocol. I certainly don't know of any doctor who wouldn't want to see a child that was described as that unwell. (I'm an 'adult' doctor rather than a paediatrician.)

Children are notorious for decompensating late so really should never be assessed over the phone except in really the most minor of cases.

I would really encourage pretty to complain because whoever gave that advice gave potentially very, very dangerous advice that could have ended so, so much worse. It doesn't matter how hard it is to assess a child over the phone. It is really difficult which is why any doctor I know would want to see the child and assess in person.

aero that is true but sometimes I don't need A&E, I need an OOH Dr and such a phone line is my gateway to one.

They used to have common sense.

DinoSnores, as a nurse, I find your comment derogatory. OP, I hope your little one starts to feel better soon.

When I rang for dds migraine, I just wanted advice on whether I could use two medications together.
I ended up answering numerous ridiculous and irrelevant questions all while my dd screamed in pain and vomited into the toilet.
I ended up knowing more about the type of meds than the operator and excusing myself to attend to my distressed child.
Sometimes you just need advice.
I assured the lady that I'd call an ambulance should my daughter begin to bleed heavily or become unconcous!

libitina, you can find it derogatory all you want. I think it is a real concern.

The few nurses that I have known who have come from NHS24 have said to me how pressured they were and how difficult they found it. The ones who have gone have often been too confident in their abilities and unable to see other options.

Nurses do not have the training in diagnosis that doctors do, which is why NHS24 uses a very rigid clinical 'guidance' protocol, which more often than not sends people, appropriately and inappropriately to A&E. Doctors find telephone triage pretty terrifying and we do have much more training!

(ledkr, I saw a patient one night who had phoned asking if she could have paracetamol and ibuprofen at the same time for period pain or something like that. She had to answer numerous ridiculous questions for 15 minutes instead of just being told, "yes". She was asked if she had a rash. "Well, I have eczema." So an ambulance was sent out...)

Libitina.... No need to take umbrage.

Children deteriorate quickly and not only that, the trige person is dependent on second hand information! Sounds like an ambulance should have been called IMO. We all know what terrible problems there have been with nhs 24, no need to defend it.

My Dsis called Nhs Direct after my DN was showing symptoms similar to what OP's DS showed, she was told to give him calpol and send him to bed. So assessing Children over the phone is probably not the best idea, especially with such concerning symptoms (Dsis couldnt wake DN at all).

I had to argue with the nurse to get my mother a doctor from OOH. i said fine I'll phone 999. That got me a call back and a DOCTOR, who sent an ambulance - my mother had sepsis and i was told had she been left a few more hours she would have died. I hate the bloody protocol questions. My mother has a rare medical condition and i have to waste time
answering irrelevant questions. I have no problems whether its a nurse or doctor on the other end of the phone i just want a person making decisions who can use a bit of initiative. Not follow a list of questions that seem solely designed to rule out meningitis.

I no longer bother with 111 i just go 999 as i know my mother needs to go to hospital. She suffers from addidons syndrome.

Often when I get to my OOH it is quiet (1 other patient there) but you wait 4 hours for a call back because the overall system is busy.

Hey folks quick update, ds perked up around early afternoon but has gotten worse since then his temp has spiked to 39.4°, been unable to eat or keep fluids down so they've kept him on IV fluids and antibiotics as he seems to have a throat infection too, it wasn't checked when he was taken in but it's red raw and now inflamed according to the doc, they're worried it's spreading to his chest as he's started coughing and his breathing has become harsh, but his blood tests came back clear of meningitis or septicaemia thank god. He's going to be staying in for a while now I'm able to stay in the family room tonight so long as there's no major emergency with another little one, just nipped home to pick up clothes for ds and me and make sure dp and dd are doing ok, will be back there ASAP

Oh no poor mite!! He really is going through the mill, poor thing

Your poor DS, hope he gets better soon. Xx

Take him. I think doctors prefer to see well children than ones very ill. Please take him and fingers crossed its nothing x

Sorry to hear that pretty. Hope the meds kick in shortly as ds is feeling better soon. X

Just seen update. Hugs to your son. Hopefully feeling better soon xxx

OP I'm so sorry your Ds is unwell :( i hope he gets better soon.

Hope he gets better soon. Sounds like he is in the very best place.

Well done taking him in - you were absolutely right to trust your instincts. I hope he's on the mend very soon

So sorry he is still ill

Drowsy, hot, sick are serious problems and should always be checked.

If you are saying it is hard to diagnose over the phone then there is no point calling them. I am talking in general and not to you personally and always trust your instincts over someone who can't even see your child.

Poor thing :( hope he is on the mend soon

Poor boy :(

I hope he is feeling better soon.

Hope you're all ok Op - like others have said, trust your instinct, if it doesn't feel right just get it checked no-one is going to be angry you bothered them.

fwiw Ds used to go all sleepy/non-wakeable when he was fighting an infection as it really took it out of him ( also with v. high temps) but i still took him to a and e.

Update please? How is he?