Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 ··· 23 24 25 ··· 39 40

Original poster

to really regret the whole grammar school thing.

999 replies

newrecruit · 20/09/2014 11:16

DS1 is in year 4 (DS2 in year 1).

I went to a girls grammar school and loved it. So when we moved out of London one of the reasons we chose this area was the schools. I don't think we are super selective (don't quite know what that means)

However, I was explaining the schools to him this morning as we drove past one and had an impending feeling of doom.

He's bright but can't be arsed. Resists pushing and I am against tutor on principal. I don't think he'd suit an all boys school.

What have I done! We should have just moved to a comprehensive area with a decent intake.

Some parents are already talking about tutors and its 2 years away. I want to hit them quite hard.

Please pile in and tell me to get a grip.

OP posts:

Hakluyt · 25/09/2014 10:11

Here. The whole discussion in a nutshell.

LaQueenOnHerHolibobs · 25/09/2014 10:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 25/09/2014 10:15

How would you decide who did it and who didn't?

MrsMcRuff · 25/09/2014 10:16

The familiarisation papers that I have looked at are more like level 5 maths than they are level 6. Most top set children will be covering year 5 maths in year 5 at state schools.
When has the advice changed and become children needing to know all of the level 6 curriculum in order to be successful at 11+?

The advice has never been that you need Level 6 maths, Miss, it's Year 6 maths. From our Grammar's instructions - The Maths test reflects all areas of the National Curriculum at Key Stage 2 .

That means that children taking the exam need to be familiar with Year 6 work by the end of year 5. In state schools, that's just not going to happen. Private schools may possibly () take a different approach. Hence the use of tutors for many state school pupils (also private, of course, but that's their business, not mine).

The Grammar schools ought to be recognising that state school pupils are hugely disadvantaged by the system, and I have spoken to someone in the admissions office of my local Grammar to tell them so. Even bright state school children performing at Level 5 in Yr 5, aren't going to have been introduced to some of the topics which crop up in the 11+, at the time they take the exam (start of Yr 6). Well, ok, a lot of them will, but only because their parents have had them tutored. You wouldn't normally expect someone to sit an exam when they hadn't been taught all the stuff they need to know, would you?

AvonCallingBarksdale · 25/09/2014 10:19

I went to what would be described, I suppose, as a leafy comp in Hampshire and then on to a good sixth form college to do my A-levels. It gave me a really good start. However, DH, I and the DCs now live in a grammar area for lots of different reasons, so, we are part of that system. My DM went to a grammar from her horrible tiny rural village and for her it was truly her escape route and allowed for tremendous social mobility. I moved to this area still seeing the whole grammar system with rose-tinted spectacles because of my DM. I am not so naive as to think it's still like that obviously. But, we are waiting for DS's results at the moment and are embarking on the school visits. We were blown away by the boys grammar and the opportunities afforded to the boys there. DS has worked really hard, we can't afford for him to go privately, so why shouldn't we want the best for them, if that is what we believe the boys grammar to be? I don't get this anti-grammar thing - everyone wants the best for their own DC, be it private, grammar, non-selective. I don't want to stand in his way when he's lucky enough to benefit from what the grammar can offer him if he passes

LaQueenOnHerHolibobs · 25/09/2014 10:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 25/09/2014 10:22

" don't get this anti-grammar thing - everyone wants the best for their own DC, "

If you think the grammar is the best, by definition 70/75% of children in the area don't get the best. Are you happy with that?

LaQueenOnHerHolibobs · 25/09/2014 10:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AvonCallingBarksdale · 25/09/2014 10:30

I said "everyone wants the best for their own DC, be it private, grammar, non-selective "

So, in my opinion, the best for my DC, in this area, is one of the grammar. The results from the Upper school are very, very good, but I can't lie and say that the facilities and opportunities afforded by the grammar don't appeal to me more for my own DC. To answer your question, no, I'm not happy that the others don't get what I would consider to be the best, but not everyone would agree with me that the grammar is the best, so that's fine, too. We don't all have to be the same. There are many things I am not happy about, but few of them are things I can influence. I can, however, do what I consider to be the best thing for my own DC, which is what I am supposed to do as a parent, isn't it.

MrsMcRuff · 25/09/2014 10:32

If you think the grammar is the best, by definition 70/75% of children in the area don't get the best. Are you happy with that?

Sorry to butt in. No, I am not happy with that, but given that we are living in an area where there is selection, I am not going to disadvantage my own child on a point of principle, by not trying to prepare them adequately for an exam to get into the best school in the area. I can wish for things to be other than they are, but I can't change the system singlehandedly, and whilst it prevails, I have to work within it, in the best interests of my child, don't I?

TheFairyCaravan · 25/09/2014 11:03

I'm not angry, *LaQueen, I don't like liars that's all!

Quite a few girls at the school might get As and As but it is no where near 1:2 getting all As and As as well you know!

AvonCallingBarksdale · 25/09/2014 11:13

I agree Mrs McRuff

MrsMcRuff · 25/09/2014 11:26

I would like to add that paying for my child to have an 11+ tutor (as you pointed out. LaQueen, maths isn't everyone's (my) strongest suit ), doesn't mean that I don't feel extremely aggrieved on behalf of the children whose parents are not in a position to/don't realise they need to, do the same. They shouldn't have to. A child getting a decent education should never be dependent on how savvy/engaged/well-off the parents are.

If selection is to be retained, then the feeder state primaries and the Grammars must work together to try and make the entry procedure less exclusive and divisive. The Grammars were originally set up to provide an academic education for bright children, whatever their background. In my day, the 11+ was taken by all pupils, in their own primary school, after minimal familiarisation. VR and NonVR, I think - tutoring unheard of. This was far more like the 'level playing field' originally envisaged (inasmuch as selection can provide a level playing field).

Hakluyt · 25/09/2014 11:30

Can anyone tell me why the top set children need to be educated in a separate building to everyone else?

LaQueenOnHerHolibobs · 25/09/2014 11:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsMcRuff · 25/09/2014 11:32

^I might have meant insofar rather than inasmuch!

BeyondRepair · 25/09/2014 11:33

The Grammar schools ought to be recognising that state school pupils are hugely disadvantaged by the system,

I think everyone knows this and recognizes it, a recent experiment to make test non tutor-able has failed and a huge % of private have got into local grammer.

You will not ever stop parents for wanting G for their children.

All you can do is support those at state better.

Its quite simple.

Raise up State primaries if this is what needs to be done?!

BeyondRepair · 25/09/2014 11:35

LaQueen and Fairy

Maybe you ought to take your arguments about one school outside,do an arm wrestle over it, or something.... I am not sure how many of us care who/where/why/when/what one school somewhere we don't know got one A or two A's?

Missunreasonable · 25/09/2014 11:35

Can anyone tell me why the top set children need to be educated in a separate building to everyone else?

They don't need to be educated in a separate building. However, separate buildings exist and some people prefer one building over the other.
The system isn't equal but why should any parent feel the need to use their children's heads as a battering ram to break down the inequality door? Most parents prefer choosing what their feel is the best that is available for their own children rather than using their children as battering rams for the sake of other people's children.

BeyondRepair · 25/09/2014 11:36

They shouldn't have to. A child getting a decent education should never be dependent on how savvy/engaged/well-off the parents are

Yes, of course, this is where peoples anger needs to be directed, at their primary schools, demanding more of them, not less IF they are so bothered about a tiny % of children going to grammar. Which as people have said over and over do not make any real difference anyway

BeyondRepair · 25/09/2014 11:37

but why should any parent feel the need to use their children's heads as a battering ram to break down the inequality door?

Hakluyt · 25/09/2014 11:37

The thing is that half to two thirds (depending on where you are) of what you need to pass the 11+ is completely useless for any purpose except passing the 11+. So would be a complete waste of primary school time for any except the ones that pass. So 75% would have spent a significant chunk of time doing something which brings them no benefit at all.

BeyondRepair · 25/09/2014 11:38

Can anyone tell me why the top set children need to be educated in a separate building to everyone else

But in a state secondary/comp etc they are in a seperate class room? Steam

LaQueenOnHerHolibobs · 25/09/2014 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hakluyt · 25/09/2014 11:40

"They don't need to be educated in a separate building. However, separate buildings exist and some people prefer one building over the other."

Absolutely nobody prefers the building 75% end up in!

Flip

1 2 ··· 23 24 25 ··· 39 40