To ask all Scottish MNers to join in and work together?

[SantanaLopez]

No gloating.
No blaming.

Just appreciation for a huge turnout and a peaceful process.

Am.not "raw"

Saying that sounds like gloating though.

Anyway I have respite just now so need to spend it relaxing

BadLad - cheers, I just wondered because I'd have put country, always...and I'm nosy, lol.

Roseformeplease, I don't think you're going to get a yes voter saying any of that...it wasn't a debating meeting, it was and is something that people care passionately about. Winning or losing isn't going to change your mind when it comes to something people feel that strongly about.

Rose, I hear you loud and clear.

I don't have facebook, but have been using it to "spy" on family and friends who are very vocal on the referendum, on their public facebook pages.

One very vocal yes-voting nephew (40 yr old) had a weekend bash planned, starting after work Friday and scheduled to go on all weekend.

When "yes" didn't win it was of course cancelled.

He then had a very vocal, very childish, very unreasonable strop at his no-voting cousin (my other nephew) yesterday because he was going out for a celebratory meal with his wife and kids and inlaws.

I so don't get it.

If yes had won the vote, weekend long, well publicized, drunken celebratory bashes were fine.

But because no has won, a low-key meal with family and friends is viewed as gloating.

I am becoming far more disenchanted with yes voters post referendum than I ever was in the run up to it.

I said things, not you. I have no idea how you might or might not be feeling and wouldn't want to speculate.

tabulahrasa and rose people on the whole around here seem understandably down but accepting that they did not get the majority vote and are broadly philosophical. Some friends saying they needed time but then could move on and look at what they could do with the new structure coming up. A couple saying they thought the media hyped up their chances of winning too much and allowing them to get their hopes raised too high when it had all been a protest vote at first. Others of course were far more engaged though.

My concern is that we don't miss the opportunity to find a good situation going forward before it disappears.

Rose, I actually agree with you. I'm a yes voter and have said to a couple of No voters, congratulations. As much as I am disappointed and somewhat emotional things have ended the way they did (I've said previously that my community has been torn apart by this, half my street are no longer talking to each other, friends have stopped being friends and the general feeling the past few days have been bitter and angry). But in the end the No campaign won, they put up a damn good fight and now we all have to repair ourselves. So congratulations

happy I posted my work experiences on Friday. It's damaged a whole load of relationships, this referendum.

Thanks for my and here is or for everyone on both sides who worked so hard to get the outcome they felt was best for Scotland. We need to get on with the business of living together now.

for me, ds been in hospital since 1 am ish this morning, no sleep yet! I'm really hoping that we can all get back to normality some time quick, this referendum has brought out both the worst and best in a lot of people

I voted no. And chances are the no vote means my DH's job is safer (my job was never under threat), the debt plan drawn up to ensure my ILs won't lose their home is safer, plenty of my friends (with varying incomes) jobs are safer.

But there is no way I would be celebrating. It was a pragmatic vote, not a positive one for me. I've been in tears at the feelings of disappointment among so many of my friends and family. I didn't vote no because I thought things were fine. I voted that way because I want change, but from a more stable position.

I feel like I would have had a heavy heart whichever way I voted. Devo max on the ballot paper would have been so much better. But onwards and upwards we go. Without the referendum to focus on, we can start to focus on working together and building on the beautiful, admirable wave of political engagement that has grown in this country.

Zuid, I think I remember reading about you being left out of the lunch invite at work.

It's ????? ..... I just don't have the words to describe this level of petulance.

I said to my nephew last week that I thought the level of party him and his neighbours had planned was just awful. It was "nose-rubbing" in the extreme if the yes's had won. He just laughed at me and said I was just being a poor loser as a no-voter, and it was normal for the "winning" side to have a massive drunken bash, and I should stop being so petty and realise the winning side have every right to party vocally.

So I sent him a short text yesterday quoting his own words at him, and asking why he was allowed to have a massive street party in the event of a yes-vote, but his cousin (my other nephew) wasn't allowed a low-key family meal by way of celebrations.

His reply was, and this is a direct quote "because he is a no-voting cunt, just doing it to gloat".

This is a 40 yr old (yes voting) man referring to his 38 yr old (no voting) cousin. They have always been close. More than close, they have stuck by each other through thick and thin for 4 decades. They were best of friends since the older one helped the younger learn to "walk" by pulling him around the living room in his baby-walker.

Now one is calling the other a cunt.

I despair. I really really do.

Especially as the no-voting nephew actually wasn't that fussed about the planned parties in the event of a yes-win. He expected it, accepted it, and even understood it. But he is now the cunt for going out to Harvesters for a low-key celebratory meal with his wife, kids and inlaws.

Another No here...and really don't want the cost and upheaval and upset of another referendum.
But if Yes voters really want independence in the future instead of criticising/insulting No voters listen to WHY they voted the way they did. Lots had valid reasons, ones that need to be addressed if in the future there is to independence for Scotland. Not fear or treachery or selfishness etc.
The majority here are saying it - the reason I couldn't contemplate Yes. The white paper was a wish list. On another thread someone said the reason the SG don't use their tax raising powers was HMRC told them it would cost 10 billion and take 5 yrs to sort it out. You only had 18 months....and before you could even start properly you needed all the negotiation...I think it would have to be a gradual exchange of power, a process taking years and really carefully thought through.

And as for older people voting No - even if you believe that data - maybe because they are more used to listening to what politicians say. And to be critical of the exact wording used. The best eg I can think of the Nick Robinson/BBC bias fuss. Alex replied to the question. His reply was 10ish mins long (long anyway - I have listened to it all) but he really never answered the question. Agree maybe NR should have said that more clearly but what he said was true. AS was/is a good politician (as was Tony Blair) ....bluster, change the subject, be extremely careful what words you use - say one thing but imply something else. (eg Blair said in a speech he never set a DATE for the Iraq war with Bush in the Sept - I believe him, I think he was telling the truth - but I think they agreed in principle, sometime in Feb, exact DATE to be decided...)

And maybe a lack of exposure to social media may be a good thing. Someone posts an inaccuracy on youtube/fb/twitter and people believe it and it grows wings.
Same with all the fuss about vote rigging - one of them even Yes Dundee said from the beginning was rubbish - but it is all over social media - yes votes on a no vote table - the truth has been lost to the rumour. The guy writing something on one piece of paper - I've seen the video - that became someone filling in a stack of votes. And it goes on...

I am hoping we get move on from this now and be positive for the future...I was in town yesterday, in one of the few places that Yes got a majority and there were lots of sad faces ...and I really felt sympathy for them -obviously had a huge emotional investment in the outcome and were bitterly disappointed.
And people with no previous political engagement - not used to losing things like this.
It is really hard. (Imagine being a losing candidate in a 'normal' election - you have to stand on the platform with the winner, you already know you've lost and then have to shake their hand and congratulate them -I couldn't do it.)

Since we are still in the EU (for now, if Boris and Nigel get in, who knows) there is always the possibility of emigration if you don't want to hang around 'making it work'.

I for one am fed up of the rehashing and blaming.

Well done, no won. The yes supporters accept that, well most do. I'm distancing myself from the crazy calls for recounts, just like no supporters distance themselves from the Orange order.

This isn't like being in the losing party. People voting yes were brought together for this and disbanding isn't really an option, people feel really disconnected and without a purpose now. We'll regroup and carry on once we've licked our wounds and not just as a single issue vote yes group. I'm excited about staying involved and coming together with those who voted no but aren't happy with the status quo.

As to the lack of access to social media. I find this very patronising. My parents, aunts and uncles and their friends are in their 70s and on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Viber, Linkedin etc with three times the amount of technology in the house than I have.

Ditto. In fact, my father at the age of 90 is far more computer-savvy than many of my friends and colleagues aged between 20 and 55.

I think it's pointless and fairly ridiculous to start pushing for another referendum. We can't leave the country divided and in limbo with endless referenda in the vague hope of eventually getting the result one side or the other wants. Given that, as time goes on, the life span of oil revenue will inevitably decrease, there's absolutely no guarantee that the Yes vote would succeed in the future anyway. We need to get on with the result we've got.

I am becoming far more disenchanted with yes voters post referendum than I ever was in the run up to it.

This.

I had friends round for dinner last night. It was good to get together with like minded no voters and have a bit of a vent about all the crsp being directed at us. This was not a celebration, the mood was just one of relief.

I'm seeing increasingly wild claims on FB now about how independence would have stopped sectarianism in Scotland etc etc. I'm finding it hard to bite my tongue and ask how exactly that would have been achieved.

I think people making claims like that are deluded. If we could have got rid of sectarianism in Scotland I think someone would have thought of that by now. That's the same as saying it could have got rid of racism. You cannot change the mind of extremists involved with sectarianism.

I have given up. The entrenched yes voters do.not.get.us. They feel our economic concerns were based on fear. That we didn't do our research (this point actually amuses me).

There ain't much point discussing it again. Another friend has just been lambasted on FB for being a coward and a disgrace to Scotland.

I also would like the elderly bashing to stop. That an older person is inferior because of their age is offensive. I have more respect for the elderly, not less, because they have seen it all before.

The 45 Campaign is up and running. Their website has a link to a change.org campaign calling for a "re-vote"

you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-for-scottish-referendum-vote-count?source=facebook-share-button&time=1411130736&state=sign

I can't help but think of the other '45 .

Another divisive campaign which deservedly was soundly defeated and which would have been a disaster for Scotland if they had won.

Perhaps these threads have run their course. The no voters have got what they wanted, and the people who wanted independence are not going to forgive easily, but they should accept.

Personally I have never felt less engaged in politics and feel sad, and angry if I'm honest because I feel a huge opportunity has been squandered. However, I'm just going to have to live with it and move on.

I find 'the 45' utterly repulsive. So divisive and so bitter. They seem determined to make a yes voter a special category of person.

Would we all have been gutted if there was a yes? Absolutely. I like to think that I would have put my head down and got on with it- hell, we had made all the plans. We would have been able just to go.

Well you know I was yes...older people are always more conservative with politics (with a small c) so blaming an older generation really isn't helpful, because that's us in a few years and however people feel now, only some of them will feel the same then.

I do understand that people voted no for various reasons and because they feel it was right - because I listened to both sides, so no I'm not accusing anyone of being traitors or cowards.

I don't think the vote was rigged (though I laughed lots at the irony of Russia saying it was), I think BBC bias is massively overrated (though I've seen it in small ways).

I think people voted and that's that.

But, even with all that, I'm still upset, I mean, much much more upset than I thought I would be...so I do kind of understand the high feeling just now.

I don't think Friday in Glasgow helped either - I know, absolutely without a doubt that that was completely a sectarian thing and that they do not on any level represent no voters...but there is a tiny tiny part of me going, that's who won? On the other hand I'd be thinking that if yes had won and it was the opposite side of eejits in Glasgow, that's who I voted with? But, I don't think it helped anyone.

Well tbh you cant ignore nearly half of the scottish population wishing for independence. Personally , Im not bitter towards people who voted no and went out to celebrate it. Thats fine by me and i would have done the same had it been yes. What really worries me the most is that Westminster are arguing over where they go now. Gordon Brown has no powers to enforce any of the claims he made and neither does Alistair Darling. From this side of the pond, it doesnt look as if anything is going to change any time soon with the parties arguing over whatever powers should be given and actually it seems that scotlands focus towards any change seems to be shadowed by power wrangling in England over what change they should have..a bit like children fighting over sweets!!! To me, that is a totally separate issue. I do think the people that voted yes are worried that wiithout having the threat of something like 45 we would easily just return to the status quo like the referendum never happened. That is the fear i would imagine and especially so since even Alex Salmond has announced he is set to leave. Its just an absolute shambles.

Armando for First Minister. And, Prime Minister. And, he can be the Boss of Me to boot. Brilliant bit of post-ref musing:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/21/scottish-referendum-massive-voter-turnout-means-politics-changed-for-ever