To ask all Scottish MNers to join in and work together?

[SantanaLopez]

No gloating.
No blaming.

Just appreciation for a huge turnout and a peaceful process.

Oops can't believe the Barnett formula is based on wrong figures.
Guess that's going to change now then !

Yes. We arent funded more so we use extra for free.prescriptions and no tuition fees.

We just have a Government with more socialist spending priorities.

Handcream It has been known for a long time. Have a read of it and make your own mind up if is based on need or a very big miscalculation funnily enough Barnett, who wrote it, says the latter

Here's a link to the Barnett Formula

But a couple of small C&P's

he’s eagerly pronouncing the formula “fundamentally flawed” for the simple reason it “wildly” over-estimates Scotland’s population and therefore gives Scots a disproportionate slice of UK tax revenues

Scotland gets £1600 more per head than England in public expenditure. That means they have been able to do things that we can’t like [cap] prescription charges and university fees. That’s not fair on English taxpayers

As Chief Secretary I was having a terrible time doing what I didn’t go into politics to do – cutting public expenditure, I was having meetings with every departmental minister about their budget. They all wanted more money - Tony Benn and Barbara Castle more than most. I decided that I could get rid of at least three cabinet ministers – the secretaries of state for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland – if I could settle on a formula for their budgets. So I set up this method for allocating public expenditure that the cabinet then agreed to. I never called it a formula. That only came later when Margaret Thatcher and John Major carried on with it.” (As did Tony Blair and Gordon Brown)

What Lord Barnett had known, but didn’t in the heat of the moment have either the time or inclination to tackle was that what he calls the “starting point” for the formula – ie the estimate of Scotland’s population – was wrong. I knew it used out-of-date figures. So Scotland was being overpaid, Wales was about even and Northern Ireland was very complex because of what was going on there then. But I left it as it was. My first priority was to make a system to save me trouble. The real problem,” he admits, with a wise-old uncle chuckle, “is that now no politician wants to tackle it. And I say that as someone who’s been in politics for 50 years. The Barnett Formula saves people trouble. It saves prime ministers worrying. That’s the way with politics.

(The last two chunks I've taken little bits out of as they're a bit waffly - but the link is there if you want to read it in full)

Roonerspism , I completely agree with you.

and of course read the whole thing while understanding that a lot of Scots believe that the oil and gas up here should belong to Scotland, so those revenues are seen as being 'given' to Westminster.

sorry, that was to Luckytwo

...a lot of Scots believe that the oil and gas up here should belong to Scotland, so those revenues are seen as being 'given' to Westminster

Exactly - and unfortunately this ignores the point that Scots "own" these things only as a part of the UK. They'd probably have received a proper share if they'd become independent, which would then have been all theirs as a sovereign nation; since they voted no it's not going to happen, though - however much some may wish it would

This thread has so moved on from its original intent hasn't it

Statistically and LivingZuid I do think its more that the SNP failed to convince the electorate, rather than the electorate for being to blame for being scared, etc.. i.e. it was up to them to prove their case for independence. They didn't do that. Their argument was based on it being emotionally compelling and that most things could be sorted out later.

Whether this was deliberate, we'll never know. I suspect they knew perfectly well they couldn't deliver and expected a No vote, but then AS made a decision to let it run to save face.

It was a demonstration of poor leadership. His failure to comment, to give guidance, to SNP supporters so as to condemn intimidation and bullying tactics was notable. Again, its a failure of sound and ethical leadership.

How on earth can you expect people, with no experience in those matters, to work out things like what currency your country is going to use, how your economy is likely to be affected by different factors, how long EU membership, etc, is likely to take? The SNP wanted independence, they have wanted it for long enough, they should have set it out properly, on paper, how they would achieve that. The White Paper reads more like the overlength thesis of a not particularly gifted student struggling their way through a first draft.

I've been ill today with the sadness, disappointment and worry about the future.

But what is cheering is the thousands of people joining the SNP, greens and socialists ahead of the general election.

I just fear what the Tories have in store for Scotland.

But what is cheering is the thousands of people joining the SNP, greens and socialists ahead of the general election.

Really? Where on earth did you find figures for that?

SNP membership has gone up by 5000 since the referendum. Greens have gone up
2000

Can't get socialists as have to put dd3 to bed.

This is not an exhaustive list. But the hope is that people can do something positive with their political engagement to feel less powerless about the problems we face. Engaging politically is very important too of course, but if you are looking for somewhere to donate your time or money, to make a difference it's a starting point:

Poverty
The Poverty Alliance seeks to influence policies at all level that have an impact on poverty and can create the conditions for a more socially just Scotland

Trussell Trust Organises food banks across the UK

Housing
Shelter Scotland giving advice, information and advocacy to people in housing need, and by campaigning for lasting political change to end the housing crisis for good.

Children and Young People
Barnardos Operates throughout the UK and helps young people with an array of challenges, including mental health, domestic violence, leaving care and poverty]]

Children 1st Scottish Children's charity tackling a wide range of issues, from children at risk, families separating, befriending etc.

Yorkhill Childrens' Charity supports parents and children at Yorkhill Children's Hospital in Glasgow

Women
Scottish Women's Aid Scottish Women's Aid works towards the prevention of domestic abuse. Campaigns and lobbies for effective responses to domestic abuse. Works with local shelters.

Women's Fund Scotland gives money to local projects to encourage or support women and girls.

Older People
Glasgow Old People's Welfare Association - Provides Daycare, Supported Accommodation, Clubs, Advice and more to Elderly people in Glasgow

Disability
Glasgow Disability Alliance Group which aims to be a collective, representative voice of disabled people, promoting equality, rights and social justice.

Adult Care and Support
Turning Point Scotland Provides support to adults with varied complex needs such as learning difficulties, mental health problems, addictions, homelessness, rehabilitation etc.

General Volunteering
Volunteer Scotland

Improving Politics
Electoral Reform Society campaigning to make UK politics better.

I am sure the are lots more local projects and national ones I haven't mentioned. Often these were ones that came to mind or came up when I did a quick search. I know I haven't even touched on the environment or health charities but I don't have any more time at the moment.

I hope they are of use to someone.

The command paper re. devolved powers is to be drawn up by civil servants for 30 October.

There is to be a debate in House of C on 16 October to check everything is on track.

This is the programme - so let's get with it and lobby our Westminster MPs so that they know what we want.

I hope you are feeling better TheBogQueen - I genuinely mean that.

bogqueen I also think it is very good that people are engaged in the debate again no matter which side one voted for. I don't think it was all for nothing.

Sorry was busy. Yes I appreciate that oil revenue has contributed to all finances but one things for sure it is most certainly not Scotland's oil. - might have been if independence was agreed to .
I had never questioned the Barnett formula before.
Now I think it's a gonner tbh, as folk are becoming irritated in rUK.
Great that WM are debating isn't it, but do not expect great things.
You may get more budget to play with but the budget per capita may be smaller. And by all accounts it should be.

tBH I think the whole referendum affected more than I realised. That working ft with three children

But yes the new politics is pretty inspiring, lots of young people suddenly engaged, lots of people discussing how to take this forward .I really hope the momentum continues.

And thanks guys

That should say 'you may get more of the budget to play with ....

chelsy I waffled on up thread with similar arguments. I agree completely. What is surprising is that so many were prepared to go along with it. I guess that is credit to his fine skills as a politician - they are undoubtedly there. But the detail and planning and realism was never there. He thought the "scaremongering" dismissal would silence the doubters but it only made us doubt him more.

bog queen I'm sorry you are feeling low

Funnily enough, I'm so so disappointed with the Greens. I have flirted with a Green vote at a few local council elections - never again. I have never seen SNP as remotely green with their destruction of vast swathes of remote land with wind farms and reliance on oil. I also can no longer take the Greens seriously now I have seen their complete ignorance of the importance of paying for things.

I'm never voting for them again. And rejoining the Labour Party.

Luckytwo..read the OP

I admire the greens for asking their party what their thoughts were on indepence then listening to them andaallowing any that weren't in favour of indepence to say so.

Scottish Labour would have came out of this with a shred of credibility if they'd acted in the same way rather than towing the party line regardless.

Rita for once you have actually posted something that I agree with.

I'm sick of this old fashioned splitting into 2 main political parties in the UK. Left and right. Conservative and socialist. Bad and good. Tax and spend and careful and business oriented. Co-alitions seen as a bad thing and something quite astonishing.

Its all so tribal. Floating voters are surely a sign of an interested, engaged and motivated electorate. Why the expectation that so many sign up to one political party for life, like a religion?

With the advent of smaller parties like the Greens, more will hopefully follow. That means the big parties' votes will be diluted, and more cross party working required. Which is no bad thing.

Sorry will go...don't know what I've done ???

Actually ...there have been people calling each other thick, and all sorts on these threads. I have I think been reasonable all through, and disappointed that somebody can tell me off.
That's the problem with us scottish, if we all stuck together we'd be fine but actually history has shown, time and time again, we just can't.
Goodbye and best of luck !