To ask all Scottish MNers to join in and work together?

[SantanaLopez]

No gloating.
No blaming.

Just appreciation for a huge turnout and a peaceful process.

Madame of course it wasn't enough, talk about staying the obvious, doesn't stop me still believing it though! Look at my posts - at no point am I trying to convince people they were wrong for voting No so why should I feel I'm still being criticised for voting yes?? And why on a thread like this when I have pointed out two attacks on Scottish people is that not being addressed, apart from Fanjo obviously! God it's depressing, all some people seem to care about is bang on about how Yes would have been disastrous. As Fanjo said isn't it ironic on a thread about Scotland "we" is being used to mean England!

Fontella - once again, totally agree.

I am in the SE and I wish they would move it north, York would be fine.

Latte, I'm not going to through your entire post countering you as we could do that all day. Let's just say that there are ways to argue this from both mindsets , evidence, anecdotes, analysis, statistics, hopes, fears and precedents that supported each point of view. And now we will never know.

I realised a while ago I neither have the appetite nor ability to win arguments on the Internet.

Good luck to you if you do. Most people on these threads that voted yes are much better at it than me.

deeedeee there are positive things you can do now! there are lots (1000s) of new members that joined the SNP and Scottish Greens yesterday. There is the #the45 trending on twitter and Bella Caledonia have a terrific plan of action they posted up yesterday.

I am disappointed too and a little scared as to how things are going now, Scotland gave up the chance for real power and we are now reliant on the goodwill of Westminster to retain our separate parliament, they could decide to get rid of it and there is nothing we could do. Imagine the damage a ukip / Tory coalition could do and there is little alternative, labour are finished in Scotland due to lying and being Tories in disguise.

Thanks ruby! :-) I 'be joined the greens too, am all over robin mcalpine's plan, the 45 and am commuted to becoming part if the change. I guess that because I started these threads and found them so utterly depressing and bullying and belittling the last month , this morning when I'm feeling so fed up I ended up here. I will bugger off again and leave them all to it.

Btw stat, thanks for the questions and concerns you posted about the risk assessment article. It would be good if you could post them in the comments section if Bella caledonia below the article if you have time.

deedee I'm a bit confused as to why you would post if you don't want to discuss it, but that's you prerogative. It's not about winning an argument on the internet and I'm sorry you see it that way.

Please can I ask nicely this time that we don't use language such as Scotland gave up its chance, at least on this thread? I understand that is how you feel about it but there was a good, clear No decision from the Scottish people on this matter. I promise to park my own feelings.

I completely agree Ruby that there are so many positive things that can be done. And now is the time we must act to take the initiative.

I will do if I get time deeedeee.

There is nothing to be gained, on either side, from making assumptions about why people voted yes/no, from blaming people for voting yes/no or from throwing about insults. The whole point of this thread was supposed to be about moving forward, together.

FWIW I seriously don't see the king gurner Farage in Parliament any time soon. That he and his clowns represent us in Europe is beyond a national joke and a serious embarrassment. I have no idea how you harness the passion of this referendum and transfer it to Europe and the EU but I think that is going to be necessary in the future.

It's somewhat frustrating when someone comes on here with statements like "The economics of the yes campaign had plenty of support as did the economics of the No campaign. It was not rainbows and moonbeams" and then backs away when asked to explain. That's been the problem with the Yes campaign throughout, and that is what makes it particularly irritating when they resort to the mantra that people voted No out of fear.

We all need to work together to get the parliament we want. I'm not yet sure HOW we do that, just that we need to, because right now NONE of us are getting what we want out of it. Essentially we ALL want the same thing.

Veritata Totally agree.

Totally agree veritata

Fontella I would love to see a national parliament outside of Westminster. I just think we might be in for more than a 414 million bill

Well I lost interest in these threads when people were comparing the 'dark side' of the Yes campaign to the Khymer Rouge and Maosist China.

Now I come back on to see that people are casually dismissing racist, right-wing British Nationalists intimidating the public, throwing flares at police, burning flags and making fascist salutes. An awful lot of fuss was made on these threads about an egg and some stickers. Well, here is the face of violent British Nationalism.

And then, despite the fact that Cameron immediately did a 180 in his first speech since the referendum, and emphasised that the so called 'vows' for more powers for Scotland would take a back seat to establishing a settlement for England, people are clinging to the idea that "There is an election in less than a year and the major political parties need Scottish votes".

They don't. They don't need Scottish votes at all. Scottish votes have a less than marginal impact on Westminster elections. The WM parties have got what they wanted and now Scottish voters can go and whistle.

I think the thing that epitomises the no vote is the passivity involved, the assumption that others will fight for Scotland.

Cowardice and treachery are also valid points because if you had been brave and if you had been loyal to each other, trusted each other as people, it would have worked because you would have made it work.

What the No voters think of as bullying or people trying to make them feel bad is simply the Yes voters telling the raw and honest truth. The no voters simply have a different mindset. They just don't trust each other enough to make change happen and have decided to trust the wider political system to make those changes.

Both sides have a different mindset, both are valid ways of going about things, but the yes voters are simply offended by their fellow countrymen for not trusting them. I think the No voters should be able to understand that and stop being PO.

Cowardice and treachery are not valid points, they're loaded statements which will only ever offend. I'm not a coward. I'm not a traitor. I don't think they are words which could be fairly applied to any of the No voters I know personally.

Latte, I guess because I'm not perfect and I'm feeling very sad today.

I haven't thrown any insults though. Show me where I have

Sorry deeedeee the second part of my post was a general statement, not aimed at you specifically. Should have made that clear.

Criseyde, Scottish votes are important particularly to the Labour party who have won four elections because of them but Cameron has forgotten that unless he delivers to Scotland he will lose votes all over the country and be seen to be untrustworthy.

Now I come back on to see that people are casually dismissing racist, right-wing British Nationalists intimidating the public, throwing flares at police, burning flags and making fascist salutes. An awful lot of fuss was made on these threads about an egg and some stickers. Well, here is the face of violent British Nationalism

No, it's not. It's the well known face of some thugs that everyone knows do not represent BT or the man on the street. Disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Cameron immediately did a 180 in his first speech since the referendum

Did he - how was that then?

and emphasised that the so called 'vows' for more powers for Scotland would take a back seat to establishing a settlement for England

No, no he didn't, he said that the other 3 parts of the Union needed due consideration in all of this and if Scotland is to have more power the others should too. He is the PM of the UK.

Fuck this. Seriously. We had a huge turnout, a democratic result, and now a shitstorm of fallout and bitterness.

I wish this referendum had never happened, seriously I do. I have dear friends on FB saying things I'm not sure I can move forward from. I'm sitting on my hands and avoiding answering any of it because it is utterly unwinnable.

Our country has been ripped in two and it feels absolutely horrible.

Statistically so you tell me why you voted No if it wasn't out of fear and mistrust of your fellow countrypersons?

If you trusted them to make a success of your country, if you weren't afraid of what John Lewis said about prices, why did you vote No?

I am not attacking anyone here, but trying to get you to be honest about the basic reasons behind your vote. It is perfectly OK to not trust your neighbours and it is perfectly OK about not wanting to pay more in the shops.

Even as a no voter I am profoundly depressed this morning. I wasn't ever convinced by the yes arguments and I believe in the Union but I am already beyond frustrated at the politicking coming out from both Tories and Labour on the additional devolution powers. I've done the only thing I can do and sent an email to my MP telling them to pass on the message that if WM don't pull their fingers out then they have only themselves to blame if Labour lose massively at the election.

And where has all that mass of energy, that engagement, from both sides, gone to?

DD

I think the thing that epitomises the no vote is the passivity involved, the assumption that others will fight for Scotland

No, it's not passive to be demanding answers! What an odd thing to say.
Really, you need to stop accusing the NO voters of being sheep, scared, passive simply because they disagree with you about what the best way forward is for Scotland.

Cowardice and treachery are also valid points because if you had been brave and if you had been loyal to each other, trusted each other as people, it would have worked because you would have made it work

You keep saying this. You have had it explained to you many times that while Utopia sounds lovely it still needs to be paid for, a concept that would appear to be beyond your comprehension.

What the No voters think of as bullying or people trying to make them feel bad is simply the Yes voters telling the raw and honest truth. The no voters simply have a different mindset. They just don't trust each other enough to make change happen and have decided to trust the wider political system to make those changes

The raw and honest truth. Oh do give it a rest.

Both sides have a different mindset, both are valid ways of going about things, but the yes voters are simply offended by their fellow countrymen for not trusting them. I think the No voters should be able to understand that and I think the thing that epitomises the no vote is the passivity involved, the assumption that others will fight for Scotland

Blind faith at any cost. NO thanks.

NO IS Fighting for Scotland