To ask all Scottish MNers to join in and work together?

[SantanaLopez]

No gloating.
No blaming.

Just appreciation for a huge turnout and a peaceful process.

To all those who crow about the wonders of the left and labour only two days after the vote red ed is back tracking please take note NOT the Tory's or DAVE it's the beloved ed

All I can say is shame on them I think this will happen as the Tory's and the lib dems and all the NI and welsh Mps will vote this in but I think red ed has been out played

If he agrees it's unlikely labour will get in again if he back tracks the Scottish labour voters and those in other parts will punish the Labour Party and has no hope of getting in

Oh a labour lovie has already said if the bones of this is not hashed out by chirtsmad he's not voting labour he's from NI and devolution is close to his Hart

I have no doubt that there are many situations in Scotland at the moment where there are divisions and discussions. It's the tendency of this thread to go on and on about the sinister bullying yes campaign and then quickly draw a line under those twats in George Square that I was talking about. Apologies if you felt your lunchtime woes were unfairly brought into that analogy.

Fair enough you're upset, I'm upset. I think it's too soon to demand everyone just gets over it. It's not over. Far from it.

That lying "vow" and Gordon Brown's timetable changed many people's votes. After postal votes had gone out. Breaking purdah laws. Morally wrong. And now in less than 24 hours it's unravelling and becoming about whether labour or conversatives will have a majority in Westminster.

Can't believe you are calling me a bully livingzuid! I bowed out if these threads a long time ago and something tells me I'll do the same again soon. Moonbeams and rainbows? How about an opportunity for a more left leaning government because of a more representative fairer voting system ? Who is there to vote for at Westminster now for those if us that that don't see the difference between labour and Tory and their centre right policies?

poster deeedeee the Tory's want to get on with this it's fucking ed dithering

Agree deeedeee

It's not bullying to disagree with someone

I bet the Tories want to 'get on with it' this is a fantastic opportunity for them.

More name calling and blaming. That in itself is very depressing. Very disrespectful language being used on this thread.

NO voters didn't vote out of fear or cowardice, they voted 'NO' because either the 'Yes' campaign didn't have legs just unicorns, rainbows & money trees and/or because they wanted to be part of the Union that is well thought of around the world, because they are BOTH Scottish & British.

Even if the 'Yes' campaign did have legs, even if all the questions could have been answered many would have voted NO because they want the Union. Because on a global scale bigger is better. Because they are British.

The 'Yes' campaign gathered momentum because we are all fed up of the way things have been - a worldwide recession & climbing out of that isn't fun - no one has had a good time of it, not just the people in Scotland.

Have a look at the last few years since AS has been FM. Have a look at the spending in Scotland, have a look at the plans they had - are you happy with those? If you don't like the spending on the NHS, have a look at what wasn't spent on it that could have been. Stop blaming WM for everything you don't like and look closer to home.

The 'yes' campaign was legless - WHY? Because it was based on nothing but dreams and a vision - sod the practicalities of actually being able to achieve this Utopia. Look closer to home to see why the 'yes' campaign failed and stop name calling the 'NO' voters who had the vision to see what an almighty fuck up independence would have been gained this way.

It didn't stack up

Latte lover, that is very well said. I am in absolute agreement with your whole post.

Lattelover- Thanks for posting exactly how I feel. I couldn't have said it better myself.

The yes campaign won 45 % of the vote, that is a close result. Despite the media bias, the lies and misrepresentation and manufacturing of fear. " If you don't know vote no? " reporting banks moving their registered head quarters as moving wholesale? Reporting " prices diverging" as price rises. Going on the front page of a populist newspaper to Vow Devo max a couple of days before the referendum? And we still got 45% ? That is a miracle.

The economics of the yes campaign had plenty of support as did the economics of the No campaign. It was not rainbows and moonbeams. It was a chance to get out of this Westminster quagmire that is already enveloping us again and build something better.

I would like to see an English parliament situated outside London - a completely new location in the midlands somewhere or further north.

By continuing to sit at Westminster but having 'England only' debates, it still fosters this 'us and them', mentality. Everything associated with the 'English' is Westminster based, and until that association is broken you will never change that perception. Westminster/London should only be used when MPs from all parts of the UK come together to discuss UK wide policies iike Defence, the EU and so on, otherwise everything else should be devolved out to the the four individual 'governments' and located as far away from 'Westminster' as possible.

What about somewhere like 'York' for an English parliament location. I'm sure others could come up with better suggestions - but wherever it is - it needs to be a long way from London - to break that association (that those living in the North and West also feel) that it is all about London and the south-east.

An English parliament should function much like the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly - dealing exclusively with issues that affect England.

Each of the four parts - should have a 'First Minister' (England is the only one who currently doesn't) and the four should meet regularly and build good working relationships between themselves and their respective areas.

The Prime Minister or President of the UK should be someone who deals mainly with the UK on the international stage - a more statesmanlike role if you like. Again - he should meet regularly with the four first ministers - regular briefings and discussions and consultations - something that seems to be sadly lacking at the moment.

That sounds rather like a Federalist system doesn't it?

I wonder if we should all just drop it.

Since the two sides are unlikely to convince each other and people from both sides keep dropping in and saying inflammatory stuff. Its just going to get worse and tensions will be hugely inflamed.

Just my opinion though. Although I myself will drop it.

This thread was started in a spirit of peace.

Although constructive posts like Fontellas.are obviously good.

Posts justifying yes or no vote or criticising the other faction will never lead to anything positive.

And the 45 percent are looking closer to home. I think you can guarantee that. There is no way all these people that dared to think about how things could be better will stop now. It's just far more difficult because of your British nationalism and inability to see out with your narrow economic context.

And I am in absolute disagreement.

And whilst not perfect I am on the whole quite pleased with the work of the Scottish government.

poster deeedeee so now it's the media that was bias

There are other theards for sour grapes

Fontella I agree.

I don't love you Scotland, not at all. But I would have been anxious and worried if the cite had been Yes, because although I don't love you, I don't want to see a country suffer, stall and then decline. Nor do I want my country to be diminished in size and the strength that comes from size. It was the right decision.

The media was biased!

And I think arguing on here isn't constructive. So I'll no doubt apologise and leave again soon. I'm just so dissapointed and angry and scared about politics now. I think calling for peace in the OP and expecting people to just get on with it 2 days after when there is so much political uncertainty is ridiculous. Just as much as my OP on the first if these threads was. So I'll go again now and try and turn my sadness into something constructive.

They won't bloody listen though Latte.

They are talking about have having English only days in Westminster, which just makes it worse. Like Westminster is the preserve of the English and it can shut others out of debates.

So effing stupid it makes my blood boil. They cannot see how everyone, not - even a high proportion of English voters are fed up with Westminster and would like to see an English parliament located elsewhere.

They need to break that association once and for all and take an English parliament as far away from effing Westminster as it is possible to get. Yorkshire would be perfect - quintessentially 'English' but far enough north to get that it's all about the 'south-east' perception out of people's minds.

They won't though.

Yes would love a thread on how to turn my sadness into positive action. This thread has just made me cry from frustration, again. Hate feeling despised. I'm out.

deeedeee I was using the expression to highlight it was the same way you were describing the undecided nos. The point is we are all entitled to vote however we want to as can they. I found your language borderline bullying as I have found some of the other comments throughout this debate but to be fair it was nothing as strong as words such as cowards or traitors or other awful things that people have had hurled at them. I am sure you are nothing of the sort. I just think we have to be careful with what we say and people are entitled to vote without any sort of intimidation like that be it from family or an employer or anyone else. I was a bit too strong, sorry.

We won't understand how someone else voted or the rationale behind it ever. This was an emotive decision and went beyond a normal political one. But it is done and we have to move on to make the best of it, and do it together. I'm not trying to preach but it is still an exciting time and change is going to happen.

The yes campaign won 45 % of the vote, that is a close result

Once again, the NO margin being minimised. If that margin had been the other way, that would have been called a 'landslide'.

Despite the media bias

There was no media bias BOTH sides thought it was biased which shows that it was actually well done.

the lies and misrepresentation and manufacturing of fear

Sorry - are you confusing the NO campaign with the Yes campaign?

reporting banks moving their registered head quarters as moving wholesale

What part of EU regulations do you not understand??

Reporting " prices diverging" as price rises

Retail told you what would happen. Hardly the NO campaigns fault if you don't like that is it? Once again, going la la la la at the facts doesn't change them.

Going on the front page of a populist newspaper to Vow Devo max a couple of days before the referendum? And we still got 45% ? That is a miracle

Yes, I agree, it's a miracle that Yes got 45%. It's surprising that many people couldn't see past the 'Yes at any cost, don't worry about the details of how we will achieve this Utopia' rah rah that was being spouted. Ask NO voters you know, ask people on the street, believe people who have already said 'the vow' didn't make them vote NO! It probably had the same affect to both sides - a few changed their mind both ways an insignificant number.

The economics of the yes campaign had plenty of support

such as....?

It was a chance to get out of this Westminster quagmire that is already enveloping us again and build something better

I feel for people who genuinely feel this way. Sadly the 'Yes' campaign didn't stack up and for that you need to look at Alex Salmond and how this was handled. IF he had been able to say 'this is how we can achieve it' and give specific detail and answer questions - not just say 'ah details, mere details' then quite possibly the vote would have been Yes. He let you down, not the 45% of voters who said 'No thank you'.

I agree Fontella re Westminster being the UK Parliament and having separate parliament(s) for England. I don't them "them and us" votes is a good plan.