indyref 14 - the one with the polling day

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Come on in, sit down, and chew your nails with us.

Hahaha staying because they like the English.

Nothing to do with the Ref, but as you're all here :)

Why are my (in an English village) church bells ringing?? This is the third time I've heard them tonight. I have been here 5 years and I think I've heard them about 4 times in all those years? It's odd.

I don't think any No folk I've spoken to are convinced - there was one person upthread but otherwise...nope

Feeling slightly more positive as spoken to someone who I thought would be a yesser to find they are a No...(Still teary though )

The two yes voters I've spoken to both have said they think the Nos will win...which actually make me worried that some Yessers just want to make the point they want more autonomy than actual independence...
People talking about a fairer society - I keep reading this - but I really believe that the poorest people in Scotland - ones on benefits - especially disability benefits will suffer most in the event of a yes. If you are skint you can't afford to be generous...you can't spend money you don't have.
Tax people with money too heavily and they can (and will) move - even the squeezed middle will have more chance of escaping than the poorest in society.

Lots of reasons why I think I'll have to leave in the event of a Yes - mainly cos I don't want my children to suffer the economic fall out.
But also I am English but have lived here for a quarter of my life. My children consider themselves Scottish. I have contributed to society, the local community, by doing voluntary work etc.
But I am being told by certain sections of Yes voters to 'Fuck off back to England' - in the event of a Yes win I will take that as the majority view.
I'm not going to stay where I'm not wanted - why would I?

Legalalien the results from Aberdeen, the last poll, aren't due in until 6am so he won't miss much (says she who will most definitely be up!)

Aww. Yes I love England - the batty types that only seem to be found in England, the English reserve, the couthy Geordies and Liverpudlians, London, pretty English villages with their WRIs and annual fetes, (or is that only on the Archers) cheese-rolling competitions and other really old traditions, happening towns like Brighton, English hippies, my English friends, my English neighbours, loads of English MN-etters....

unlucky83, I'm Scottish, but there is a part of me that has felt that way because of some of the things that have been said to me/shared on facebook etc about No voters.

It's not about whether we happen to get the government we vote for coincidentally, it's about the vote counting for anything in the first place.

I appreciate that the context of the original discussion was about whether the Scottish vote made a difference to UK government.

However, can you see what this means? Very often, more than half the time, England and Scotland agree* on who the government should be. We actually have a lot in common.

Nationalism, and this referendum are predicated that the Scots have such different needs or values to the rest of the UK that we can no longer make decisions together than are in our mutual interest. I don't believe it.

Scottish people are very diverse in their views. We have our own parliament to make local decisions which only affect Scottish people, and democratic representation in the UK for issues which affect all of the UK. It is strange to me for people to say that Scotland should always get it's way about those.

Even if we become independent (just an hour left to vote) there are many decisions that will still need to be made at a UK level. Independence means they will be made mainly by rUK with Scottish diplomatic efforts by officials appointed by the Scottish government.

I'd much rather that we kept our directly elected representatives to make decisions with the rest of the UK. It means that our diverse voices are heard, from Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dem and SNP... rather than a single voice from whoever is the lead party in the Scottish government.

*I don't mean to miss out Wales here, but I don't know if they are included and it is a rUK thing or England alone as I didn't do the totting up.

I'm not sure of the outcome

On another note, the thing I have noticed in all the conversations about why people should vote No and stay in the Union is that never, ever have I seen it said that liking the English is a reason. Affection for England simply doesn't exist in Scotland, or only in certain classes? My in-laws like England, for instance, but they are (or were) prosperous and rural.

I think its more a case, as with more moderately held views, that they are inherent and not necessarily expressed.

I have noticed in a small amount of idiots in Scotland an anti-Englishness. Theres no point in pretending it doesn't exist. But it is a very small, ignorant sector of society.

It seems crazy to me, because for one thing alone, as a young (or even not so young) single person, you would be excluding something like 65 million potential partners that you share a similar culture with and the same language as. Which might be possible if you didn't intend to leave Scotland, or travel much and maybe meet someone who is English, the chances of which are presumably quite high unless you talk to no-one but people you already know on holiday.

Just voted with DH, up until very recently, last few weeks, we were both voting the same way. Then I started having doubts, but he was adamant his mind wouldn't change.

I changed my mind for sure a few days ago and was convinced we were effectively cancelling each other out vote wise but today he confessed he was unsure. I still thought he would vote the way he/we had originally planned but as it turned out he decided to change too! Sorry this is probably really boring to read but I am really surprised. Fwiw we were both no and changed to yes.

I am nervous and completely understanding of all no voters as all along I had planned to be one!

It's hard to put into words what has prompted the change, heart over head is twee and hope over fear sounds so cliche but true nonetheless, for me the chance to have a democracy that people are engaged with and feel as though their vote counts has made all the difference. I'm excited by the possibilities but nervous about the journey the country will take if we get a yes vote.

No matter what I am so proud of the level of turnout. I was amazed to hear some stations have closed because they are at 100% turnout. Incredible.

LatteLover Totally OT, but what's the name of the church? It might be a Saint's day or something?
I say this with no knowledge of saints, bell ringing or churches (although I did take GCSE RE 20+ years ago because it was easier than Geography so I am practically an expert).

lbsjob87- all very easy to say when you live in the SE of England.

Try living in Scotland- you may see things from a different perspective.

Out of interest does anyone know whether the TV channels 'switch back on' referendum coverage as soon as the polls close at 10pm ?

legalalien I'd let him stay up. Definitely. It it might be the most significant british constitutional event in his lifetime? What's one night of poor sleep to feel a part of that?

He'll probably fall asleep for a while anyway and if you are staying up you can wake him at about 4 when it starts to get interesting.

lbsjob87 you aren't alone with those thoughts x

"On another note, the thing I have noticed in all the conversations about why people should vote No and stay in the Union is that never, ever have I seen it said that liking the English is a reason. Affection for England simply doesn't exist in Scotland, or only in certain classes? My in-laws like England, for instance, but they are (or were) prosperous and rural."

Well I think that's because it's not about liking or disliking England or English people...not for anyone other than a few numpties.

I voted yes, technically I'm English, I feel Scottish because I don't remember living in England, but my mum is English, my dad still lives there, I have grandparents and an aunt in England too. I visit fairly often and have friends there.

It's not an anti-England vote at all.

Re, the results, I still think it will be close, a few undecided voters that I know have told me they ended up voting yes, which surprised me as I expected undecided people to go for no as if they were undecided no seemed like the obvious choice if you're unsure about such a big change.

Yes, they do.

Not seen it on this thread....

Today's Ipsos Mori poll for the London Evening Standard as oppossed to yesterday's one for STV

47% Yes
53% No excluding undecided

45% Yes
50% No
4% Undecided

Well, thanks for the lurve emanating south! And, of course, I know that many of you did say those things before here on MN--apologies. I have just come off various forums on newspapers and other media, and those conversations were on my mind rather than 'our' conversations, if you see what I mean.

And, of course, I know my Scottish relatives like me. Well, I hope they do!

I've phoned the parents of some family youngsters who are voting for the first time and while saying I didn't want to know how they voted have passed on my congratulations to them on exercising that vote.

I would just like to say why I posted on this and related threads so much.

I felt that there was a growing trend for Yes voters to take over and to bombard all sources of media, including mumsnet, as much as possible, to give a kind of false impression that the Yes vote was the only acceptable thing to do. I disagree with this, I am for tolerance of differing viewpoints, rather than favouring one ideology over another. I also felt it wasn't representative and that a wrong image of Scotland was being given at times.

I also disliked the way the yes vote has been partially hi-jacked by the socialist movement, so that it has become more than Yes/No independence vote.

I also work in a related field, and I'm not the type of person to canvass in person, so in the face of so much false information being bandied about (particularly on EU membership and the ECHR), I felt I had almost a duty to speak.

I don't really have any idea of how many people see my posts on mumsnet, how many people are laughing at them, or whatever, and tbh I don't mind. I got a lot of abuse on here initially before the more recent threads took off, because they were dominated by Yes supporters, who tried to use every trick in the book to demonise me. I accept I can be a bit of a Rottweiler at times...

So at least I feel I have done something for my country, instead of staying silent and doing nothing.

itsjob87 St Peter's. I don't have a religious bone in my body, so no idea if it's a saints day or not?! PMSL at you taking RE instead of Geography as it was easier, I'd have paid to take G instead of RE as it was like nails down a blackboard.

They're off again????

I don't mind, it's a pretty enough sound - I'm just confused. Off to see if it says anything on their website - which I hadn't thought about doing until you posted. D'oh

OneNight yes they do.

I feel/felt very similarly ChelsyHandy. At least we've tried.

Has anyone seen the poll on the BBc home page. Yes 45% No 50% Don't know 6%. Er, thought you could only get 100%, or have they been on the whiskey?