indyref 14 - the one with the polling day

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Come on in, sit down, and chew your nails with us.

The economy might sound like it's something that only business people and politicians care about. But it underpins everything else.

Of course it underpins how a country survives financially but ultimately economics is about how you use not only your natural resources and your industry, but how well you treat your people and the dividends that come back from treating people well. Ideology comes way before politics and economics. The ideal that a nation wants to live up to is what drives it. Political parties function purely to keep an equilibrium so we don't go off the scale.

The economy in an independent Scotland will do absolutely fine if the parties that run the country (I assume it will be some kind of coalition to begin with) run it well. With the country being smaller they will be able to make changes fairly quickly without the long drawn out planning that has to take place in the UK. So if there are problems with say, business tax, they can adjust it quickly to provide an effective outcome.

The currency issue is another red herring as that will all be worked out. Both sides are bluffing each other about it (which is quite amusing to watch) but it will all be thrashed out and the rUK should be able to make a deal with Scotland fairly. It's just another one of those things that can't be anticipated ahead of everyone sitting round the table.

what's this cityindex poll?

I think you are under estimating the difference in approach. Yes voters are looking for change, have been shouting louder, making more noise giving the illusion there are more of them. The straw polls used up to now are more likely to attract yes voters than no voters so not really a true representation. I think NO voters have just been more private about their vote, they're not the ones trying to change the status quo.

The currency issue is absolutely not a red herring. It couldn't be less of a red herring if it tried. It's an absolutely enormous issue that could cripple our economy for years.

I think NO voters have just been more private about their vote, they're not the ones trying to change the status quo.

I agree (and before anyone says anything it isn't because I voted No)

Santana - maybe Yes voters are more prone to gambling? You're hardly going to be a yes voter and put the no's to win.

Blanch that might just be a typo on my part.

I counted up 5 elections where Scottish voting had prevented the outcome that England wanted, and 5 elections where English voting had prevented the outcome that Scotland wanted - but I did it very quickly just for summat to do really, and thought I'd post it, but I could well have typed in the wrong years.

I wasn't trying to mislead or be controversial or anything like that. I just went of googling, as you do, and starting looking back through all the elections since the war and comparing the votes, to what government got into power that year.

I'm no statistician so if I've mucked it up or made a date error, my apologies.

Because the polls haven't closed yet and they don't want to lose votes from people who would tend to vote with the winning side?

I don't know. I think... when faced with the reality of it happening, some people might be having second thoughts. I won't be breathing a sigh of relief yet.

I don't think we should be speculating on here about the postal vote results really. We aren't meant to know. Observers at the openings might guesstimate but it's not accurate and they aren't meant to talk about it. Blooming Murdoch stirring things up in the hope of a scoop.

The currency is certainly not a red herring! That in itself could take goodness knows how long to sort.

They are so polls apart on what is wanted.

It isn't just about rUK being fair. iScotland has to be fair over what it is asking for too.

postal votes have not been counted they arent counted till everyone has voted.

Blooming Murdoch stirring things up in the hope of a scoop.

It always seems to be the case.

Ideology comes way before politics and economics.

Is that true? I think in pretty much every country I can think of - with the possible exception of Cuba and North Korea - this has failed. Even China's brand of Communism is utterly driven by economics.

I may be wrong.

The economy in an independent Scotland will do absolutely fine if the parties that run the country (I assume it will be some kind of coalition to begin with) run it well.

lol

Daughterdilemma I can't even read odds! I genuinely don't have a foggiest what they mean.

what's this cityindex poll?

On Twitter. Totally unreliable, but I liked the numbers

The bookies are already paying out on No bets? What?

It was only one very small part of a bookies who paid out. Publicity stunt IMO.

My Betfair 'No' vote paid out nearly two days ago. The odds just kept dropping so I layed it off (it was an exchange bet).

On another note, the thing I have noticed in all the conversations about why people should vote No and stay in the Union is that never, ever have I seen it said that liking the English is a reason. Affection for England simply doesn't exist in Scotland, or only in certain classes? My in-laws like England, for instance, but they are (or were) prosperous and rural.

Does nobody want to stay with us because they like us as a nation, as opposed to our bigger economy, etc?

Sorry, my second paragraph was a bit garbled!

I put a post up a while back about my positive reasons for No Abra1d. I didn't explicitly say "I love the English" but I did talk about something along the lines of;

"I feel like we are, after so long, a fundamental part of Britain. Not an extra bit stuck at the top but a fundamental and integral part. I value being part of that union, and value our recent history as a shared entity more than our ancient history of division, war and hate...I also don’t believe in tearing the world in to ever smaller pieces based on what really are small differences. I value the unions and relationships we have with other countries. For all its flaws, I value the EU and the stability and relative peace that close relationships have created in Europe. But I value the union with my closest neighbours the most.
-I watched the Olympics and realised that I did not see the competitors from England, Wales or Northern Ireland as not being my countrymen. I cheered as loudly for Jessica Innes as for Chris Hoy. "

So whilst I didn't say it outright, the affection was definitely there :)

Abra1d I'm sure you were just joking, but I hope lots of posters don't get upset. There have been a LOT of posts about feeling British, at one with us English - together, UNITED. Heartbroken at the thought of losing their unity with us :(

Oh yeah, I love England/Britain. I watched all of the royal wedding and have laughed till I cried at #soverybritish on twitter.

In the interests of fairness, I also love Welsh people. I had a Welsh boyfriend ahem once.

And the NI are great as well!

Abra1d

I think I said in a previous thread that I was travelling over England recently and as I looked down from the plane a real and quite unexpected surge of affection welled over me. I know you winked at the end of your post but I did feel it.

I'll confess that there are parts of England I don't know well but although I'm a Scot it's always felt as much home to me as my own hills just a bit different so there's a strange dichotomy there.

On the other thread they are saying they are absolutely certain of a 'Yes' win.

This is just so totally bizarre. How can each side be so sure of victory? I've never seen 'owt like it. (and no I'm not from Yorkshire - I just fancied getting 'owt like it' into one of me posts).

Do you know what?
I HATE all this. I have been quietly hoping it would all go away but now it's here, I am genuinely upset by the idea of Scottish independence.
I am British, although born and bred in England, I don't see myself as English at all. What does being English even mean?

I HATE that good Scottish friends of mine have found themselves losing sleep over the prospect of a Yes vote and are frightened to discuss their futures with their own families because they disagree and don't want a row.

From what I've seen, read and been told, Alex Salmond has painted a picture of an independent Scottish Utopia that in reality can never exist.

I'm SICK of being told Scotland didn't vote for this government - well, guess what, England didn't either - no-one did.

I hate all the references to "London and the South East" being in control. Well, I live in the South East, and in many areas, mine included, it's no better than in many other places, high unemployment, deprivation, huge migrant populations. We have as much "control" round here as someone on Shetland (less, probably).

This country is on its knees financially but compared to so many other places it's incredible, prosperous, beautiful, full of people with fantastic senses of humour and it's all on the brink of being ripped apart forever because of some ill-thought out, non-specific claim that the grass is always greener.

I hope and pray for a No vote - if Yes wins, who's next, Wales? Cornwall? Manchester?

People DIE to get across borders into the UK, and some people want to start building them up again. It will be an absolute tragedy if the Yeses win.

Quick question, AIBU to tell DS aged 9 that he cannot stay up all night to see what happens, even if, in his words, it might be the most significant british constitutional event in his lifetime?

I have told him I will wake him up at 5:45, he usually gets up at 6:15.

If it makes a difference , we are in England