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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

indyref 14 - the one with the polling day

999 replies

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 09:14

Come on in, sit down, and chew your nails with us.

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squoosh · 18/09/2014 15:08

Lordy me.

WildThong · 18/09/2014 15:08

squoosh

I don't like the sound of this brave new Scotland which growls at the opinions of those within its walls either

OneNight · 18/09/2014 15:10

I guess I'm not all that surprised that I have to explain the meaning of loyalty to people who think that money is the be all and end all.

I'm sure that you didn't mean that to refer to me given that I've explained that the outcome of any vote will have little financial impact on me?

DaughterDilemma · 18/09/2014 15:11

So your view is that those things are a matter of no concern to the Yes campaign despite the fact that they are a matter of very real concern to many undecided voters?

Other things come first - you can't fuss about something you don't know about. Anyone can make money, Scottish, English, Irish, Welsh - that's the easy bit.

Speak now or forever hold your peace I think is the appropriate phrase, after today there will never be another vote and Scotland will always have to do what Westminster decides.

DaughterDilemma · 18/09/2014 15:12

after today

*that is if the No vote wins... Smile

DaughterDilemma · 18/09/2014 15:16

Good god has nobody got anything intelligent to say except to try and pull apart honest and valid opinion? which is what the no voters say they are not being allowed by the yes brigade pot and kettle like

We are verging on flaming here and it's getting a little bit playgroundy.

squoosh · 18/09/2014 15:17

I don't like the sound of this brave new Scotland which growls at the opinions of those within its walls either

Yes indeed, good point WildThong.

livingzuid · 18/09/2014 15:17

Well we don't agree with it which is why we are pulling it apart. Welcome to democracy!

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 15:17

Cos criticising the intelligence of other posters really supports your argument

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TensionWheelsCoolHeels · 18/09/2014 15:18

No SC I did not say your opinion is irrelevant because you might be leaving. You are taking what I've said out of context. I said that the opinions of those who are still here after the dust settles matter more IMO. If you are still here after the dust settles, you opinion matters just the same as everyone else still here. If you leave, your opinion will be no more relevant than any other expat. You and others have tried to suggest that I've said your opinion now about this referendum & Scotland is irrelevant but that is not what I've said at all.

OneNight · 18/09/2014 15:19

DD

I think people might like to read this extract from Donald Dewar's speech to the Labour Party Conference in 1999 in which he referred to the SNP economic policy.

Then there is the puzzling case of the party's economic spokesman. Within the same week he argued that it was possible to be British, to be proud of it, yet vote against Britain for separatism. And then just as quickly changed tack, describing the Union Flag as offensive, - a relic of colonialism. They tell me he is a nice young man - he did eventually apologise - but would you put him in charge of your finances?

For those who would like to read the full speech the link is here. You might wish to note in particular his reference to the SNP's politics of illusion.

Times move on and sadly Donald Dewar is not able to move on with them but some things it seems remain just the same.

As I said above what you have said has been very revealing.

GrouchyKiwi · 18/09/2014 15:20

Why do you think there will never be another referendum on this is No wins, Daughter?

DaughterDilemma · 18/09/2014 15:21

You have nothing to say apart from 'stay safe'. That is the only argument behind the No campaign and god help anyone that might want liberty if it means taking responsibility for your own destiny.

WildThong · 18/09/2014 15:24

Ooft, just had to hide yet another independence referendum thread which started off goady and then got worse.

I hope it all calms down a bit after the count but I can't see it.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2014 15:26

If you think the only thing I have said throughout these threads amounts to stay safe then there's not much I can do about that cos you are clearly reading very selectively indeed.
I'm pretty sure I've said a hell of a lot more than that. But what is wrong with choosing stability? What's wrong with saying what we've got isn't that bad and I'd rather improve it than rip it up? What's wrong with saying I'd rather protect the poor and pretending that economics don't matter isn't going to do that? What's wrong with saying idealism and patriotism won't feed my child or anybody else's? absolute nothing!

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Isitmebut · 18/09/2014 15:27

If the 'yes' campaign had a firm plan how an independent Scotland would be set up, fine, but hey haven't - so we have just over 4.3 million potential voters in Scotland deciding for the rest of us, if there will be a UK economic train crash lasting years.

I would suggest that there will be another Scottish Independence vote, so we have to ensure Scotland next time 'has a man (or woman) with a plan' set in stone i.e. a Scottish currency and bond market and other 'stuff' between us is untangled to do the least damage on a 'yes'.

As Scotland on a 'no' is likely to have tax raising and borrowing powers, that is a start, as Scotland should be able to issue government bonds to fund what it wants now, and finance budget deficits later when independent.

BardarbungaBardarbing · 18/09/2014 15:28

I think plenty on here like taking responsibility.

I just object to being tied to someone intent on jumping off a cliff.

MuddyWellyNelly · 18/09/2014 15:28

First post on these threads! I voted (No) at about 8.30, quiet and very friendly atmosphere. Maybe FB has over-exaggerated the talk of societal breakdown Wink.

Anyway I have a question, apologies if it's answered in another thread. People have been talking about negotiations in the event of a Yes vote, and how AS will be rather, err, ineffective. But what about the 2015 General Election? Would Scotland still vote in it? If so, someone else could be FM at that point couldn't they? I might even vote for Gordon Brown after last night!

Like Rose a few pages back, I also discovered a surprise No voter today, which has made me feel much better. It might not be enough to swing the vote, but I feel a little calmer. I'm also touched by all the FB messages from my expat friends wishing Scotland good luck.

One final thought, on non-residents voting. I can sort of see both sides, but the one that swung it for me is my former boss from when I briefly lived abroad. Scots born, he hasn't lived here for 20 years, or contributed a penny to the economy. He is not invested in any way, nothing will change for him whichever way it goes. But he posts about 5 times a day about this wonderful opportunity, how we should vote with hope not fear (awful theft of a wonderful Mandela quote), not be downtrodden, etc etc; but most tellingly he took part in a debate in his small overseas island as the Yes supporter, and made a comment about "it's not about how much tax you pay in the next few years". I thought that was kind of rich coming from someone who hasn't paid tax in so long. Hmm My thought was "thank god he doesn't get a vote" because he can afford the luxury of idealism, misguided as it may be. Shame you can't eat it though :(. All that said, I do think Scots living in the rest of the UK should have been allowed to vote, as they do have an interest in the outcome.

Tomorrow, I hope for quiet acceptance on either side.

gruffalosarse · 18/09/2014 15:28

We would and do intend to leave scotland if there is a YES outcome. my husbands business will not survive if we don't. We are very certain about that, and no it's not scaremongering, It's our reality. I feel very bitter about having to leave my home, uproot my children and leave the life i have created because of a referendum brought about by a party I did not vote for. But hey, that's democracy. I completely agree with the poster who commented on this referendum having different meaning to individuals, you cannot claim to dismiss peoples fears about the stark realities we may face.

AnnieHoo · 18/09/2014 15:29

I spoke to a no voter this morning who was voting for the first time in his life. He's 28 and didn't vote before because he didn't see the point, couldn't relate to any party and heard the same words coming from all parties.

A lot of people are realising the consequences of not using their vote before. This has got to be good for democracy. Smile

WildThong · 18/09/2014 15:34

In the current economic climate "staying safe" sounds like a good option to me. I already have my liberty so that's sorted.

I think the Yes campaign is selfish as it doesn't want to do anything to help the poor and underprivileged in the rest of the UK. We can all work together for change everywhere. There is thread just now from someone in England who has 33p to take her through to next week and no food. So we turn our backs and become an inward facing, greedy, grabby little country and say fuck her, she's not worthy of our help? Yes calls that social justice and equality, I beg to differ.

OneNight · 18/09/2014 15:34

I hope so AnnieHoo because there has been too much sitting back and feeling disenfranchised. As I've said before though my fear is that in the event of a Yes vote engagement in politics for most people would be completely stifled by the immediate concerns of a disastrous financial and social situation and that is not something I want for my country or my people.

Fontella · 18/09/2014 15:36

I just saw a picture of a column of monks filing into a polling station?

And before any wag makes a joke - they were real monks, not a gang of blokes in fancy dress. Smile

I couldn't help but wonder about which way they might vote ... any thoughts?

Isitmebut · 18/09/2014 15:37

AnnieHoo .... re your friend "He's 28 and didn't vote before because he didn't see the point, couldn't relate to any party and heard the same words coming from all parties."

No doubt those words, handed down generation to generation, were 'it's all the Conservatives fault'. lol

Isitmebut · 18/09/2014 15:38

.....sorry, the "effing" Conservatives.

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