indyref 14 - the one with the polling day

[StatisticallyChallenged]

Come on in, sit down, and chew your nails with us.

squoosh he was maybe just a nice guy, some No people are, you know

These are 'interesting times' to live through.

Wasn't that an old Chinese curse? 'May you live in interesting times', or as wiki tells me it actually is 'better to live as a dog in an era of peace than a man in times of war'.

I could do with some boring old stability and certainty for a while.

I'll repeat this for those who seem to be extrapolating utter nonsense from what I've said. I have not, at any point, on any thread, said anyone cannot or should not express their views or opinions on this referendum, their fears/hopes and the outcome they want. Not once have I attempted to silence anyone, of any persuasion. I have not stated here on this thread that anyone cannot state their opinion on whatever they want, in relation to this referendum. I stated that in my opinion, no matter what the outcome, it's the people who remain resident in Scotland should continue to have their say on what happens here once the dust has settled. What that means is I have respect for anyone/everyone's views/opinions on how they intend to/have voted but, after the outcome is known, I (strongly) believe that it's the people of Scotland whose opinions hold weight/matter most when it comes to deciding how we (Scotland) move forward. And just to be crystal clear, that applies whether it's independence or continued unity.

Is that clear enough?

Yes, that's fine. It was not what you said originally. If I leave Scotland then once I have gone my opinion is no more relevant than Brian cox's.

nicename I think so - yes:

'may you live in interesting times' is certainly a double edged sword when you think about it.

Nobody 'has to leave' if there's a Yes vote. It sounds as though you are expecting a modern day highland clearance.

It's ridiculous scaremongering. Of course big business wants Scottish wealth to remain part of the UK - what did you expect - for them to cheer on independence and say how marvellous it will be?

If big business had its way all the time there would never be any progress, people would be downtrodden, have no rights, there would be little development or change at all. Big business likes low risk but low risk stifles progress.

This referendum is nothing to do with business, economics or finance, it is about democracy, royalty, loyalty, history and governance. If people only see things through the pennies in their pocket anything that is not finance related will wither. All the innovation, education, voluntary work, decent services count for nothing if all we care about is money.

I've been lurking for a while, as a non-Scot with a British passport, resident in England (so no vote). Although born in the UK I was brought up in New Zealand, with an English and a Kiwi parent, on the Kiwi side I have scots, irish, welsh and english ancestry.

It strikes me that I have more of a "british heritage"/ see myself as descended from British stock (rather than english v scots v welsh etc) view than many of the people who were brought up in a particular part of the uk. In the same way that expat Italian and Greek communities in Australia are arguably more "italian" or "greek" than the younger generation in either of Italy or Greece.

Re financial services, I suspect it's not just HQs that are going to be the issue. I haven't done the analysis but my gut feel is that outsourcing service provision to a non-EU group subsidiary, particularly where regulated services are involved (custody, fund valuation etc) may also throw up some issues.

Ultimately I get that it's up to the people of Scotland. I originally really wanted Scotland to stay but having seen some of the "Yes" vitriol on TV I now feel quite neutral about it, and I know a number of people here in the dreaded south east who are, as a result, hoping Scotland will vote Yes. DS (age 9) who has been watching the news suggested that they record people's votes and only continue British citizenship for those who vote no. As he sees it - having watched the news and not been coached by me- "if they hate us that much, then let them have their own country and let's build up Hadrian's Wall". Made me quite sad.

No-one has to leave in the event of yes BUT don't kid on SOME jobs won't go and therefore if the choice is being unemployed or move with your job, people will leave.

Really sick of the word scaremongering

Blimey, Daughter
I know the Referendum is about Democracy and Governance but

royalty, loyalty, history

REALLY?

I live in Scotland and it isn't about history.
It isn't about Royalty (are you having a laff?)
and it sure as hell isn't about 'Loyalty' - to what or whom???

And of course economic concerns are a factor for most of us in the real world. Sadly economics cannot be ignored for many.

why am I so sure???

because the vast vast majority are intelligent people

Applauds mindreader

Shakes head in disbelief at daughter

Going back a few points though about others getting involved, I think the media has focused too much on what outsiders think, discussions involving non-Scots on TV should have stopped a while back but they continue to debate, bringing on any celeb they can find that has an opinion on the matter as if it's news.

I just wish there was less opinion and more fact. More explanations of the White Paper, more understanding of the democratic process and more real information to work from. Not that it's not there, it should really have been pointed to much earlier on.

I am astounded that so many people think Alex Salmond will be some kind of leader in an Independent Scotland when he has always said that all parties will be involved in decision making as they are in any other democratic country.

rooty no one said that. We pointed out it wouldn't happen within 18 months.

Thanks TeamScotland

Rolls eyes at Wildthong

Shrugs as used to it

DD Really?

Pig sick of the use of scaremongering to describe legitimate fears and concerns. Pointed out flaws in the yes campaign is not scaremongering.

No we might not be marched to the border and ordered out but I think that having to leave has a somewhat broader definition for most people.

And you don't get to dictate what this referendum is about . It's different things to different people. There might only be one question but what lies beneath that question is hugely diverse. And loyalty -I am happy to have loyalty to the rest of the UK and want to work with them rather than only caring for the 5.3m people who live north of an arbitrary line across an island.

'discussions involving non-Scots on TV should have stopped a while back'

Why? That seems a very dictatorial and blinkered stance to take. People are entitled to have an opinion on the referendum and I for one was happy to listen to the opinions supporting Yes and opinions supporting No from people outside of Scotland. Distance from an issue can give a different and interesting perspective.

SC I'm not quite sure what your issue here is. If you leave, if it's yes, why would your opinion be more relevant than BC's, to anyone who remains resident here? I'm really not clear on why that seems significant to you, when you feel so strongly about celeb expats trying to have their say on this referendum. It sounds to me like you haven't actually factored that into your thinking in what will happen afterwards, if you do leave. But it seems that not having a say matters more than you are willing to admit to yourself. If you do leave, for what ever reason, tell me why I or anyone else still here, should ignore the expat celebs but listen to you? It makes no sense at all.

Me clarifying what I've said hasn't changed what I've said. I've simply clarified it further to avoid being continually painted as someone who is blackmailing/offensive/naive/trying to silence others/promote ethnic cleansing (!).

This referendum is nothing to do with business, economics or finance

That's very revealing DD. So your view is that those things are a matter of no concern to the Yes campaign despite the fact that they are a matter of very real concern to many undecided voters?

I don't like the sound of this brave new Scotland which growls at the opinions of those who do not dwell within its walls.

Mindreader - you don't see that this is about Royalty? That the Queen was made Queen of Scotland through the will of the Scottish people?

Really I shouldn't have to explain this.

And loyalty is the kind of thing that makes people do stuff for each other even when it's not about money, when it hurts, because they are friends, family and neighbours.

I guess I'm not all that surprised that I have to explain the meaning of loyalty to people who think that money is the be all and end all. Not that independence would mean a weaker Scotland, probably quite the opposite as it would be able to rid itself of huge debt and the extraordinary amount interest involved in that.

No, you're choosing to adjust what you said and to then take my comments out of context.

Whilst I live in Scotland, whether I might have to leave or not, my opinion is just as relevant as anyone else who lives in Scotland. You suggested it wasn't because I might be leaving. I disagree.

When I leave my opinion ceases to be relevant.

Is that clear enough?

daughter of course it's not about economics. And all those businesses pay their staff candy canes and everyone travels to work on unicorns. Stopping to drink tea with the queen on her pink fluffy cloud every day.