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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think 2 1/2 hours is too long in a dirty nappy?

336 replies

RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 09:30

DS started pre-school this year and is not potty trained at all. Just not ready.

The school handbook thingy says "your child will not be precluded from attending Nursery should they not be toilet trained. In such circumstances a programme/plan will be drawn up between the school and parents as a positive step towards improving the situation".

He was dirty when I picked him up on Monday so yesterday, at drop-off, I asked them what their policy is. I was told they aren't allowed to change them, they have to encourage them to do it themselves. Also that they have to rely on the child telling them they are dirty. I explained that although he does wear pull-ups he wouldn't be able to do that and there is always wipes, nappies and nappy bags in his bag.

She just re-iterated that that's what they have to do, so I asked that if he is dirty again can they ring me and I'll sort him out (I live 5 mins away). Tbh I couldn't think of any other option.

She agreed but I left feeling like I'd asked something really unusual.

I know it's only morning but surely up to 2 1/2 hours is too long in a dirty nappy? Of course he could have only been dirty for 5 minutes, I'll never know, but he was uncomfortable enough that he wouldn't walk home and was quite sore. And a diet nappy stinks, how can they need to wait for the child to tell them?!

Am I being massively pfb? I genuinely want honest opinions.

OP posts:
HaroldLloyd · 17/09/2014 18:04

My friend was told he had to go in And change his son, but ours have been changing DS and plenty of other children who are wetting themselves, but not nappies.

It must take just as long to do that, but I was told it was as they didn't have time.

I was thinking of contacting my health visitor for some ammo as well, becasue she was constantly telling me I'd just have to wait a bit and try again.

But when he got it, it was really quick, which tends to be the case at that age. He only had accidents one week in nursery and now only when he is so happy playing he wees in his pants!

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 18:05

Seriously, Happy, what do you think you are contributing to the thread?
I asked if it was unreasonable for a pre-school nursery to leave a child in a dirty nappy for two hours.

How helpful do you think it is to tell me it's a moot point because I should have potty trained him by now?

OP posts:
HavanaSlife · 17/09/2014 18:10

Happy what are you rambeling on about? Ds2 was pretty much potty trained by nursery at 2.5 because he was there every day while I worked.

I potty trained ds1 at 22 months as he was ready. Ds3 syill wouldnt wear pants until nearly 3 and wouldnt poo unless in a nappy.

Or maybe I just became lazy by the 3rd Hmm

MrsDeVere · 17/09/2014 18:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Purplepoodle · 17/09/2014 18:12

It's pretty standard pre school policy her unless you pay for private preschool. One of the mums I go to the toddler group with has ended up just sitting in her car outside the preschool as her child is having difficulty potting training and poos at least twice during a session

Purplepoodle · 17/09/2014 18:13

They will change wee accidents but not poo accidents and will only take children in nappies if the parents are willing to come change them if they have a poo.

HaroldLloyd · 17/09/2014 18:15

Where are you poodle? That's what I was told.

MrsDeVere · 17/09/2014 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Aeroflotgirl · 17/09/2014 18:26

Exactly MrsD some just care for profit not children. It's ibvious if you cater for very young chikdren, shock horror you will probably have to change them or clean them up!

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 18:36

That's awful, Purple.

If they will change wee accidents then clearly it isn't a safeguarding issue, they just don't want to deal with poo.

Well, news flash, no one wants to! I'm not expecting anyone to see it as the highlight of their day, but surely it's just an unavoidable hazard of the job?

OP posts:
hazeyjane · 17/09/2014 18:56

I don't understand how they can do that now Purple, as children are coming In at 2 and a half and so a lot more likely not to be toilet trained.

littlejohnnydory · 17/09/2014 19:21

The law in Wales is the same, OP - but I know of several Cylch Meithrin settings still refusing to change nappies. It may be coincidence but it was a Welsh school where we initially had problems with my son.

Happy, you'll be pleased to know that my son could use a knife and fork, do simple sums, read fluently and was beginning to write when he started school. He does have some medical problems and is on the autistic spectrum butwas not yet diagnosed when he started school. Perhaps that makes him more acceptable to you? I do hope so, your opinion matters so much to us.

Hurr1cane · 17/09/2014 19:31

Ah, see, my DS isn't physically able to hold in wee or poo at 8 years old because of medical conditions so I'm still a good mum according to happy Hmm

3 is still a baby FFS. If he's not ready then he's not ready, some weren't in the nursery class I taught. I just changed them. BUT I didn't legally have to as it wasn't in my contract. Some teachers/ TAs refused as was their right.

I still thought they were heartless and precious though.

Hurr1cane · 17/09/2014 19:40

By the way, if you sent your DS in to school with a pooey Nappy that had clearly been left for hours making him sore, you'd be reported to SS, or had a little slip written about you for evidence at the very least. It's neglect.

If you did it, it would be neglect, if they do it, it's neglect.

x2boys · 17/09/2014 20:14

Just for the record my four year old son has autism and learning difficulties he went to a mainstream nursery attached to a primary school last year he was and still is in pullups I had many issues with the nursery but not about changing him I just sent in pull ups and wipes and his lovely ta was happy to change him if needed he now goes to a special needs school and there are no issues about him being in pull ups ,I realise special needs schools are different.

Icelollycraving · 17/09/2014 20:19

Just as a comparison,ds is only a month older than your ds op. He picked up potty training really well in a week but we've almost had to redo it as he seemed to not recognise the urges in the same way.
Dh picked him up from preschool today with 4 sets of dirty/wet pants & clothes. They recognised that they had been expecting him to tell them when he needed the loo. Sometimes he will,sometimes he doesn't. They are already setting up a sticker chart etc for tomorrow. It's normal,don't worry.

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 20:32

I've emailed the school asking for a meeting with the Head, the Foundation Phase Supervisor, and DS's Teacher.

I've just said that I'd like to discuss their Intimate Care Policy as I'm concerned that his needs aren't being met and, after speaking to a member of staff, that their current policy will not address the situation.

Now I need to start arming myself with the relevant info and legislation so I'm prepared for whatever they try and throw at me!

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 17/09/2014 20:41

Just on the preschool within mainstream school issue, in case this helps in suggesting solutions to them (not that you should have to!) But when our preschool/ nursery class found they had a higher rate than usual of non-trained/reliable kids they appealed for extra parental help during sessions. The parents weren't asked to change nappies/clothes/do intimate care but could act as the extra adults necessary for the teaching assistant and early years teacher to do so. So the adults were a general helper for the session, assisting with activities etc. And this help was asked for from any parents who could volunteer their time for a session every few weeks (higher years in the school etc, not just 'nursery' parents).

They have to accept them in nappies/unreliably trained, and so they should, and they have a duty of care to fulfil their personal needs. Unfortunately the staffing for preschools hasn't caught up with the greater needs yet - if you have 2 adults for 20-odd kids per session, and you offer free indoor-outdoor play and learning opportunities in both, as required by EYFS, then if you need even just one adult to change, let alone 2, you're leaving half the kids unsupervised.

BarbarianMum · 17/09/2014 20:55

Randall get them to follow up the meeting in writing. Or, if they won't, email to confirm what was said and agreed, esp if they say they can't/won't keep him clean.

Ultimately pre-schools have 2 choices - conform with the law or close. They aren't allowed to just cherry pick the kids they want and it's been the law for several years now, plenty of time to recruit additional staff.

Hurr1cane · 17/09/2014 20:56

Randall that sounds really well thought out. Remember to go in with a smile and not all guns blazing, keep them on your side.

Then if they refuse you can go in all guns blazing

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 20:58

Their staffing levels are really good though, that's one of the things that impressed me when we first went to look around.

They are a class of 30 so there's one qualified teacher but there are enough TA's for the ratio to be at least at all times 1:7. Plus they encourage volunteer parent-helpers.

I'd happily volunteer myself, on my days off, but it sort of defeats the object of encouraging DS to be independent. He's very shy and clingy so if I were there he would spend the whole morning around me instead of mixing and he'd get very upset if we tried to force him.

OP posts:
kormasutra · 17/09/2014 21:05

My dd is 3 yrs, 7 months and only just fully toilet trained.
She first started the week before she was 3 in February, wasn't ready before then at all despite being very bright and verbal extremely early.
2 days after her birthday she became very unwell and was back in nappies.
It has taken us until now to train her fully.

She is at a pre school where the staff were very happy to change her, although she would never ever poo there, she gets very embarrassed and says she needs her "privacy"
Tbh, she was one of the last ones there to be trained but they did not bat an eyelid.

After speaking to friends with similar aged dc, it seems the school nurseries are very reluctant to change nappies and one friend had to go and change her ds's nappy in his school nursery until he left last year.
He was eventually diagnosed with asd and is still not toilet trained but is now in a brilliant school for autistic children.

I'm pretty sure that when my ds was at a school nursery at 3/4, he's now 11, the children had to be toilet trained before admission but I'd since heard that they can't discriminate against non toilet trained dc.

I would ask to see a copy of their policy on toileting, they will have one.
Good luck:)

Original poster
RandallFloyd · 17/09/2014 21:06

Oh I definitely don't want it to be a negative thing, well not yet anyway!
I just want them to realise that I expect his needs to be met and if they can't do it there I expect them to be honest and tell me.

He can't speak up for himself so I have to speak up for him.

OP posts:
5madthings · 17/09/2014 21:14

Good luck with the meeting Randall they absolutely should not be leaving him in a pooey nappy nor covered in snot!

Fwiw my five all trained at diff agos from 18mths to 3.4 yrs. I trained each of them when they were ready. They all did it in a matter of days once ready but they were all ready at different ages.

NoSquirrels · 17/09/2014 21:17

Well if they have the staff, plenty of TAs all recruited for that age group, then they're totally out of order. Don't back down!

(Btw, completely agree about parent-helpers being sometimes more disruptive for the kids - that's why ours encouraged volunteers from older years, who often a) are more able to make time and b) won't be distracting for the kids in the sessions.)