To think my niece should be allowed to wear makeup to school.

[PiperIsOrange]

DN came home rather upset today after being told makeup is banned in school. She doesn't wear a lot just some foundation and clear lipgloss.

The reason she likes to wear it is because it covers all her spots, in the summer holiday she didn't wear any. My sister has taken her to the doctors and tried every OTC lotions and potions but nothing works.

It really boost her confidence and now she is dreading school because of these spots.

I have been to her school to collect school reports as dsis due to work commitments and have seen many teachers wearing makeup, so I assume it's a policy for pupils only.

Agree stuff about diet and hygiene is crap. If you've had extreme acne and/or adult acne you will sadly know that it's a fantasy that changing what you eat will make a difference, and for teens it will just feel like another stick to beat them with.

I agree that it isn't about hygiene and diet either. I ate massive amounts of crap when younger, never cleaned make up off, and never ever had one spot. I am still the same now. It's about genes not hygiene or diet

monkeymamma I wore make up in the 80s to cover my teenage spots. They got better not worse, probably due to lowering my stress at not having them on display. Even in the 80s make up did not have to cause spots. I suspect it only does if you are allergic / sensitive to it or it is applied with dirty sponges and brushes or it is never washed off.

My spots got much worse when I washed with the 80s version of 'Biactol'..... Me and my friend decided to give it to her brother (weren't we nice?)..

^ The bottle of Biactol that is.

Yep the makeup causes spots theory is really very outdated. I had cystic acne as a teen. We are talking advanced cysts of up to 5 inches in size which would actually bruise the skin causing black marks around the cysts. I was told repeatedly to take make up off at school and I refused until one memorable science lesson where I was handed a wet wipe and made to remove my makeup there and then. The pressure of the rubbing over the cyst to wipe the make up off caused one to burst and I have never forgotten the look of horror I got from everyone including teacher as this enormous river of pus flowed down my face. Not good.

My acne was untreatable by everything doctors prescribed. I couldn't take roaccutane because of MH issues (ironically I think my anxiety and depression were linked to the acne). Mine has recently cleared up due to taking hormone balancing vitamins.

Most acne is hormonal. An non oil based makeup with bb cream for example will actually help, as it will have SPF 15 in it (sun exposure can worsen acne), will reduce pore size etc. Having bad acne is not just something teens should have to suffer through, it can be horrendous, cause bullying, lead to very real self confidence issues and that in turn can lead to depression and anxiety which have a knock on effect on school work, school attendance and exam results.

Have a look at Rimmels BB Cream matte foundation. It's what I use, is v v v light and gives good coverage while actually helping the skin heal scar tissue and reduce pore size. A thin layer of that will not be noticeable, and if questioned she can say that it's a b b cream to help her skin. I do feel for her. I remember the hell of school with acne, truly awful.

I really feel for your DN OP. I had bad skin in my late teens/early twenties and pp who have said that it really really affects your mental state is so true. I was unconfident, embarrassed and self-consciuos constantly :-( I tried various treatments from the Gp but eventually was prescribed Dianette and that cleared it up, I was on it for a few years before I came off it and my skin has been fine on the whole since. As acne is hormonal maybe the pill might be worth considering? She hopefully won't need it as a contraceptive just yet, but if it helps clear her skin up it would be worthwhile?

I understand why the school have a no make-up policy as otherwise some girls would cake it on, but it is harsh for those with bad skin. could her mum speak to the school to see if they can make an exception for foundation for her? What if her Gp confirmed the effect on her self-esteem etc. As others have said, the effect can be massive

I hope she manages to get it sorted

I used to have really bad acne that went from my face, round the back of my neck, chest, back, legs, bum etc and I never wore makeup to school until I was about 14/15. It was banned but they never said anything, then the rules were changed to allow light foundation and mascara but no lipgloss/stick or eyeliner/blusher. Just enough, y'know?
But my younger sister is very self conscious. She went to school with dyed hair (like a gingery-red colour, nothing drastic, not too bright, brown lowlights) and was put in isolation. She was forced to take off her makeup in front of her peers as were 4 other girls. They were put there on show and she came back crying her eyes out. In isolation they don't let you have breaks, go to the toilet on your own, go outside, all you do is sit in a little room. I think thats awful. I just walked out and went home if I was put in there. I think, kids shouldn't be subjected to do things that makes them uncomfortable. As long as it is light makeup it shouldn't matter. It doesn't for years 9-11 in my old high school. Teachers wear LOADS of makeup and dye their hair. I work in a solicitors and i've never been told to take my heavy eyemakeup off, or dye my hair a nastural colour.the only thing I do is cover my tattoos and piercings. Those are the ONLY things that aren't allowed in certain workplaces. dyed hair and makeup is nothing, and it's abuse of power making kids take it off and sending them home. It's a disgrace.

That's true you know, in what workplace would a woman be told to take her make up off. And actually would that not lead to cries of sexism in the workplace? You can't tell working women to change their makeup, their hair colour. Re safety yes in certain workplaces women are asked not to wear heels or not to wear dangly jewellery that could get caught in machinery etc. so why is it that in schools girls are forced and often as many posters on this thread have shared, humiliated into removing make up?

There are several schools around the country that aren't so anal about appearances, allow some dyeing of hair, allow makeup, jewellery and they've not found that it affects results or work ethic. Infact I would argue the opposite; that children who feel confident because they have been able to cover acne, scars, birth marks, maybe dyed their hair a colour that makes them feel confident, are far more likely to feel happy at school and therefore engage with learning. Sending kids into school feeling vulnerable, with obvious acne or blemishes is making them a target for teasing, thus leading to heightened anxiety and preventing those children from fully engaging with learning.

Honestly, at what point in your adult life would YOU tolerate a boss or superior waltzing up to you with a wet wipe and demanding you take off your makeup? You wouldn't.

I've just noticed your name OP. I was orange at school . That's probably not the reason for your nickname, but I agree with you about your niece, particularly as she has acne.

My parents and teachers had a relaxed attitude to teenage girls experimenting - badly - with make up and some quite dodgy uniform adaptations, so long as we behaved ourselves in class and did our homework. It was a very high-achieving school, at which I did well.

We even had boys in the class. My parents thought that was important because I'd be competing against boys at work, so I may as well get used to it.

My mum never even complained about having to get the Rimmel Chernobyl Sunset foundation out of the collars of my blouses.

I was reading a Mail article yesterday.

My hair was shorter but in the late Seventies I wore a skirt so tight - normal skirt, I'd taken it in, badly, on my mum's sewing machine - that I could barely hobble and tripped over once while rushing to beat the bell.

If I was the mum to one of them I'd tell them to suck it up and follow the rules. Because most importantly I'd be telling them to work hard

But I'd also be telling them that the head teacher had her priorities all wrong and some careerists in education have managed to convince people that strict adherence to uniform is the thing that turns a failing school around.

Has someone actually spoken to the school about it? Form tutor or head of year and specifically about your DN's case? I've worked in so many schools with no/subtle make up policies and if the parent of one of my tutor group had come to see me explaining this, we would have looked at ways of supporting and that might have been to say yes carry on, or yes we'll turn a blind eye, or we'll turn a blind eye but please could you get a better match with the foundation. If you have spoken to the school what have they said? Some of us on here can give you tips what to say if you've hit a brick wall.

Having dealt with multitudes of teenage girls preening when they should be working, it is partly their fault if it is banned as if they didn't check their faces every 10 minutes or apply their make up, we as teachers wouldn't have to deal with it. Believe you me, I have a million and one better things to do than sort out girls who come in with thick heavy make up and reapply it every 5 minutes but as it really does affect learning then we have to. Adults are or should be beyond this and if you were checking your make-up every 10 minutes instead of working, you'd be spoken to. Anyway you can see my earlier post about how I deal with it!

I had acne as an adult, so sympathise, I had to go on Dianette to get rid of it and spent ages concealing it.

I suspect the main reason why makeup is banned in schools is because 80% of teenage girls cannot apply it properly, and end up orange, streaky and cakey.

Good quality makeup, properly applied, can look subtle enough to be natural. I don't see why school would have a problem with this.

I would advise her to go in with a just dusting of very well matched mineral foundation on and clear mascara and non tinted Balm for lips.

Practise first and get someone to check the look is not too mask like. She may leave traces of a few of the minor spots showing, on her jaw line or something, just to make it look like she is not wearing any make up. I doubt the teachers will even think to question her.

Just if she was used to fuller make up, these would help with the scale down. Lip balm (akin to wearing moisturiser) also alleviates dry lips, the girl in question is used to wearing lipgloss so her lips might feel dry with nothing on. Neither should look 'made up' but could help manage distracting confidence issues.

80% of teenage girls cannot apply it properly, and end up orange, streaky and cakey

I'll up your wild estimate to 99 per cent. That's why I wouldn't be bothered. I'd be concerned about one per cent who don't look like clowns.

Whereas this:

Good quality makeup, properly applied, can look subtle enough to be natural. I don't see why school would have a problem with this.

I'd raise a well-threaded eyebrow at that. I wouldn't automatically assume anything untoward, but I'd assume that they were spending too much time on grooming and possibly being groomed by adults, and not enough time on homework and pets.

And I apologies for speaking for capiscum but maybe she has experience of having acne and the make up that might give you confidence.

Luckily I don't.

The rules are there for a reason. Your DN might wear make up as a cover up - but a lot of teenagers weart far too much (weird eyebrows, clown cheeks and false lashes). The rule is correct. If she has skin issues then sorry, but she's not the only one.

I've had spots in my time. Not spread as widely as they are with acne but sometimes they have been quite large, very red and noticeable without make up. School never told me off for wearing make up, though one teacher did compliment me on my make up once. It made me worry my lipstick was too bright (and old fashioned)! We weren't officially allowed make up but only obvious make up was an issue with teachers.

LaQueen irrelevant, because no one would pick up on it.

No make up for school pupils and it's not going to help her spots.

Plus if she takes it to school for touch ups, someone will nick it and it could end in tears.

Good mineral make up, especially on primed skin usually lasts all day for most people. No need to reapply. Untinted lip balm wouldn't get nicked. Make up can help spots if it alleviates self consciousness and stress, which can cause spots. As long as brushes etc are kept clean and the person wearing it is not sensitive to the product, it should not cause spots either.

A lot of topical acne treatments (esp benzoyl peroxide) leave you with very dry lips if applied anywhere near the lips (on the chin for instance). Balm isn't really going to address that, however. Best to use chapstick or carmex. Carmex has great staying power. Both chapstick and carmex are clear.

Good quality makeup, properly applied, can look subtle enough to be natural. I don't see why school would have a problem with this.

"I'd raise a well-threaded eyebrow at that. I wouldn't automatically assume anything untoward, but I'd assume that they were spending too much time on grooming and possibly being groomed by adults, and not enough time on homework and pets."

And you would be so wrong both in your conclusions and in your assumption that you have a right to judge them. You should have seen the group of young women and young men from my DCs' high school that graduated with straight As and headed off to Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, Cal Tech, Georgetown, Air Force Academy, etc., last year. The women wore makeup and most had done for their entire HS years. Some had fashionable hair colour done. The young men had all sorts of different hairstyles, hair lengths, facial hair, a few with facial piercings.

Young women do not have to choose between looking as good as they want to according to their taste and being brainy. Just because a young woman applies makeup with a trowel doesn't mean she doesn't have a fully operational brain. Just because she applies it subtly doesn't mean she has or hasn't a brain. There is a very invidious form of misogyny at work here. Or whatever it is called when we judge women according to their looks or personal choices -- sexism? lookism? tasteism? double standard? Intellect-ism?