Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

Yes, perhaps if the Yes campaign could make us a helpful list of the newspapers and tv channels we are allowed to watch? Its not as if it would be very long, would it? Or are only the self-publicised fan fiction work "the Wee Blue Book" and "Bella Caledonia" allowed?

Should I run it past my husband for his approval first? After all, don't want him cutting my housekeeping money!

I would love someone to decode this, put up on Facebook by a colleague:

A photo of Nelson's column and a link to a shirt article about yesterday's gathering in Trafalgar Square. Understand that - although he is 24 hours too late really, but fair enough.

But then, the comment, "Oh, the irony. Just goes to show they are clueless"

What irony! Who is / are they?

Are they the English? The people of London? Those who attended? The No campaign?

And what irony?

Puzzled here. I just commented, "Who are 'they'?"

How about Eddie Mair, James Naughtie

And obviously Alistair Darling/Cameron/Clegg etc etc

Yet another company CEO speaking of how Alex Salmond hadn't thought any of this through... This time it's an Energy company that powers nearly half of Scotland.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/11099305/EDF-Energy-boss-warns-over-Scottish-independence-risks.html

Another company that will need to worship at the alter of a greater power if there is a yes vote, although I'm not sure what Scotland do without nuclear power.

It will all work itself out I'm sure...

Reading this has made me realise that instead of just listening to the hype,spin and headlines,there is going to be some serious heartache for some whatever the result.
I wish you all the very best, however you vote and hope you can find resolution.
You amaze me with your knowledge which is some cases surpasses the politicians.

Apparently, "they" are the organisers. Still not sure why "they" are clueless or what the irony is.

Whoops, too slow

I think "they" are "clueless" because "they" don't understand that "it's not about England, it's about Scotland"

or something.

Thanks SC. I am puzzled why it is OK for Brian Cox and Alan Cumming to lend their celebrity support to "Yes" but not OK for there to be support from a huge range of people for the union?

I suppose it is an example of the sort of Orwellian doublethink propounded by some in the Yes campaign. "We want a debate. But X disagrees with you. Shut up. We want to discuss this. But Y wants to show their support for the other side. Shut up."

I have found it quite worrying how debate and discussion have been shut down so frequently.

Anyone listening to Eddie Mair - grandfather voting no and granddaughter voting Yes - she is trotting out the party line - to vote no is cowardly and selfish. It is almost as if she has been brainwashed.

I know rose. I hate the way the debate is just shouted down - it really does not bode well IME for a post Yes Scotland. I feel like I'm becoming hated by some people because I'm not happy to just skip around waiving a Yes banner, because I want to know what our country would look like.

Waving!

Have sent the following: @hugorifkind friend here claiming that abstention counts as #voteno this rumour is rife - stop this misconception #indyref #democracy

It's gone to Hugo rifkind, Faisal. Islam, Jon snow, clegg, milliband, cameron, darling, monbiot, Blair mcdougall, naughtie, make, Nicky Campbell and a few others. Can others retweet this too pls? Any other bright ideas?

I'm not sure if anyone noticed my posts about being in the vicinity of Ed Millibands visit (completely unintentionally and I didn't realise until after the fact when I looked it up on my phone) - this is a fast moving thread so I know things get missed.

The atmosphere was really tense, unpleasant and quite frightening. There was a lot of aggressive shouting and yelling and I still feel a bit shaky. Makes me wonder what else there is to come.

I feel so very sad about the way things are going up here. I think we're going to see a lot more of the same (and worse) over the next couple of days. I just want this awful process to be over.

:(

BOG

So, no bad behaviour by any Yes campaigners -

Please don't tell me I don't see and hear happening what is happening in my town.

Two NO campaigners walked down the High Street today. People were shouting (some shouting obscenities) at them.
As they walked their Primary school kids home.

I have personally been the recipient of ethnic racism as have my children.

READ Puzzled's post above. Tell me that is 'ok' or 'made up' or 'well, some No people are being nasty too'. I don't think it is this level of racism on the NO front, is it??? Police condoned too. I also have experience of this sort of thing. When attacked by a fellow student in Halls some years ago, all the Police wanted to know was: 'was he English or Scottish?'. It MATTERED.

I know two GP's in my town. One is English origin, Scotland for many years, 4 Scottish born kids, does a lot for the local community. She is frightened. The other is not Scottish or English by origin. She is not frightened (I don't know her voting intention obv, but the point is - she is NOT FRIGHTENED).

They're about to talk about what you saw on BBC 5 Live.

It is getting worrying. Bullying, intimidating, menacing. And those who say it's either not happening or it's equal on both sides need to open their eyes.

I would really like Salmond and Sturgeon to come out and reject any of these behaviours. It's becoming Groupthink, as someone upthread pointed out:
Illusion of invulnerability –Creates excessive optimism that encourages taking extreme risks.
2.Collective rationalization – Members discount warnings and do not reconsider their assumptions.
3.Belief in inherent morality – Members believe in the rightness of their cause and therefore ignore the ethical or moral consequences of their decisions.
4.Stereotyped views of out-groups – Negative views of “enemy” make effective responses to conflict seem unnecessary.
5.Direct pressure on dissenters – Members are under pressure not to express arguments against any of the group’s views.
6.Self-censorship – Doubts and deviations from the perceived group consensus are not expressed.
7.Illusion of unanimity – The majority view and judgments are assumed to be unanimous.
8.Self-appointed ‘mindguards’ – Members protect the group and the leader from information that is problematic or contradictory to the group’s cohesiveness, view, and/or decisions.

It's a perfect portrait of the Yes campaign

And before anyone posts - it definitely cannot be said of the no campaign - really look at points 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6

Well done Cedric.
Let's hope the message is spread widely.

I can't help remembering how "shameful" it was said to be that WM politicians hadn't arrived earlier - also how "appalling" it was that Cameron spent time in an office instead of out on the streets

Not hard to see why now, is it??

I like this editorial from the herald

at Herald.

I was musing on this upthread - the rising tide of nationalist racism. The denying of the opposing voice. Add to this the bussed in protestors outside any news agency that dares to question.

It is looking like the cultural revolution in china. Anyone who spoke out was criticised as an enemy of the state and a band of grass roots supporters would exact punishment.

It does look like the so called grass roots campaign isnt grass roots at all - highly organised and deliberate.

And turning really rather nasty

There herald probably wants its staff to get into the office...