Indyref 12 - keeping the ball rolling

[flippinada]

Hope everyone doesn't mind, I'm to keep the discussion going. As you were folks :)

We did have lots of Yes voters but they've gradually vanished!

I do get your viewpoint latte - I think there are however a lot of intelligent people who are also buying in to the nationalist argument.

SconeQueen, I may have misinterpreted Rooners comment but I don't think she intended to say "the Yes campaign are like Nazis". I think she was more commenting in the context that when we look back through history it is difficult to understand how they were able to come to power in the way they were - that they were able to convince a nation that their policies were good, beneficial, that their lies were the truth etc.

As a No voter, the lies I see being told and swallowed by friends I would class as intelligent astonishes me although they are clearly NOT in nazi territory. It has made me understand how relatively easily people can be manipulated. I think it is those parallels, of some people not really questioning the information they are given, of just believing propaganda, and also of them being more likely to do so under certain economic and political conditions that Rooners was commenting on rather than making a direct Yes=Nazis comparison.

To verify, I am NOT saying that the Yes campaign are like the Nazis.

Thanks Statistically for those deficit figures.

I am getting very tired of seeing 'No' campaign posters that have been vandalised by Yes campaigners. I haven't seen any defaced Yes posters, but plenty of defaced No posters.

It's more the use of propaganda, via Facebook and Twitter and the all powerful friend to friend.

It's been peer to peer marketing really.

I really don't know font :(

The 'la la la la la Independence At ANY Cost' vote seems huge, unfortunately.

I hope to god many of them see sense before Thursday. I hope they see through the smoke and realise that as much as they might 'want' independence, that what they are being offered by AS is not going to be the reality of life after a Yes vote win :( He's a politician, not a magician.

You know that weatherall is out there converting while we are still talking amongst ourselves.

Yes Scone we do both know what 'Rooners' was saying - you are just choosing to distort it. Shame on you.

Scone I'm sorry if this might offend you but Salmond is a political manipulator of the highest order.

I mentioned how angry I was at his rant (and it was a demagogic rant in the style of Rev. Paisley or, I'm sorry to say, he whose name can't be mentioned) about "how dare Cameron come up here" on the news last night.

What made it worse for me is that I wasn't sitting watching it but just heard it as I came into the room. The tone and style was awful. Again you may not like me saying this but he sounded like any historical dictator you want to pick.

I've been out doing plenty Bardar as have lots of others. But actually there is a value in discussing online - the YES camp have largely owned social media and it is important to show that there are plentiful arguments against it. There don't seem to be many yes voters on the thread today but there have been most of the time. We've also had a fair number of undecideds, and goodness knows how many lurkers.

SconeQueen I think what "we all" know is what you are trying to do - the SNP/Yes campaign trick of making a spurious complaint, exaggerating it, taking umbridge about it, and making a big fuss about something very minor, and by doing that, trying to divert attention away from the substantive concern or issue onto this complaint instead. Its a type of smeering. Doesn't fool me in the slightest.

Oh and by the way, Scottish society is full of jobs for the boys, and the SNP are in the forefront of maintaining that.

I do get your viewpoint latte - I think there are however a lot of intelligent people who are also buying in to the nationalist argument

Yes sc, I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just saying I would like some of them to post here :) I would like to know how they are managing to prioritise the 'nationalist' viewpoint over the economic one.

Sorry I was musing rather than wanting to slag off anyone's efforts other than my own.

bardar if I was in Scotland I would be out there spreading the 'No' word, unfortunately I'm down in Hampshire.

Fontella. I've done a fair amount of canvassing. One recent session was in an area that looks very yes. Lots of posters, lots of flags, people leaning out of flat windows yelling 'this is a yes stair' at us. The canvass was a yes majority, but it was 60% yes, 40% no once undecideds taken out (not many of them). I saw no posters for No, although someone had the union flag hanging out of their window.

Incidentally, does anyone else find the flag aspect weird? People hanging flags out of their windows, walking along the street draped in flags etc? I get that people are involved and excited, but it just seems really strange to me.

Ok I'll tell you the democratic argument I hear put most:

Scotland should get the government it votes for. Every time. It's normal in every other democratic country.

Thus it's framed as a "civic" or democratic argument not a nationalist one. Please correct me any Yes voters.

Yes sc, I'm not saying there aren't, I'm just saying I would like some of them to post here

I would make a guess and say the standard of reasoned discussion is keeping them away. They must have figured they can win enough votes without women like us.

Its never occurred to me to canvass round people's doors to try and persuade them to something. I will just quietly try to slip out of Scotland if there is a Yes vote, with as much of my life's earnings as I can!

Not loving the flags, personally.

Barda I'm not sure Weatherall would convert anyone who wasn't already converted. I know that sounds nasty, and I apologise, but I have found her tone very unpleasant on these threads, unlike most of the other yes posters who I actually have a lot of time for.

It was more her workrate that I admired!

OOAML Can I ask if your Yes supporting husband believes that independence would mean enhanced opportunities for people like him? I mean in the jobs market. In terms of getting those ridiculously well paid jobs that some people in the public sector currently get despite a lack of relevant qualifications, experience and track record? (OK I'm thinking of City of Edinburgh Council's Property Conservation Department here).

scone save your energy. Just let them carry on talking amongst themselves. You can see where it is leading them.

To a sensible fact based discussion rather than nationalistic hyperbole?

You do know that "them" aren't actually a different species?

TeamScotland Just let them carry on talking amongst themselves. You can see where it is leading them.

Hi TeamScotland! What are your thoughts about getting on and working together with No voters, aka themselves after the Referendum?

Your words above indicate that you somehow look down upon them.

btw have you ever thought about changing your username to the more representative, fairer and equal TamScotland?

I know some highly educated but ideological people who have been very committed to Yes campaign. And some ordinary folk who are definite Nos. It's wrong to classify imo

Agree wholeheartedly, Bardar. It amazes me how some can worry about a politically intolerant society to come while dismissing a whole portion of the electorate as thick or selfish or not worth hearing. That's the road to totalitarianism, if you ask me: denying the beliefs of others.

90% (I kid you not) of my friends are Yes voters, from many different walks of life. A big group of my friends have doctorates, as we did our PhDs together. We might be politically different vis-a-vis this referendum, but they are not stupid or thoughtless people.

That's a good idea TeamScone